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I cannot for the life of me understand the Taliban's thinking on this issue. They want all westerners out of Afghanistan so why not issue a time line that is reasonable for all countries involved to verify visa, passport holders.
If they start up with the wonton killing of civilians, they're just begging for an armed response.
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They correctly sense weakness from the spineless Biden administration. They behaved far better from 2017-2020. Connect the dots.
This changes nothing. Biden is doing the right thing by getting out of Afghanistan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK736
Jesus......for the millionth time, NO ONE is saying pulling out was a bad idea. It's HOW WE DID IT!!!! Biden was warned the Taliban was gaining control again back in April. He was warned to pull out in the beginning of May like Trump wanted to so we had a better grip on this before the fighting season began. (yes, there's an actual fighting season in Afghanistan and it starts in July) The CIA pulled out 6 weeks ago when they saw how much control the Taliban had gained and that Biden was doing NOTHING to stop it.
that's all pondy & co. have left: argue against something that no one is saying, and throw in a bunch of 'but trump!'
I cannot for the life of me understand the Taliban's thinking on this issue. They want all westerners out of Afghanistan so why not issue a time line that is reasonable for all countries involved to verify visa, passport holders.
If they start up with the wonton killing of civilians, they're just begging for an armed response.
The singular reason why they're preventing people from leaving is because their blood lust is up and they want to kill all those they think might have aided the U.S. and other western countries.
I'm still flummoxed as to why there are so many remining in Afghanistan when it was well known for over a year there would be a total withdrawal. Anyone living there with first hand knowledge of the Afghani army's demonstrated capability should have got their families out of there ASAP.
Biden said in July that what is happening now was not going to happen. I am sure many Americans took him at his word and decided to stay.
And wow how quickly they grew ISIS again from people who were "wiped out". Not wiped out. Underground.
They were wiped out. We hit them so hard they couldn't reform. ISIS doesn't like the Taliban and they don't care forTypo Jihadists either. Al Qaeda doesn't like ISIS either and told the Taliban they have their back. Many member of ISIS are recruited because they don't believe in what the other groups stand for. ISIS gives them what they're looking for.
Last edited by DK736; 08-26-2021 at 10:54 AM..
Reason: Typo
I was a child during Vietnam.....I probably did take a lot of naps LOL. All kidding aside I believe this is worse than Vietnam. First our reasons for being in Vietnam were far weaker than they are in Afghanistan. The North Vietnamese were communists not religious zealots. They were not 6th century style barbarians cutting off peoples heads. The last 45 years has shown the Vietnamese grow into a stable nation that we now have good relations with. This will not happen in Afghanistan. Also worth noting is the fact that the Vietnamese never attacked the US homeland, the Taliban were involved in an attack on our homeland.
On one part I agree with you. Nixon negotiated a settlement to the Vietnam war in 1973. The NVA broke that agreement when they saw the political disorder in the US following watergate. We did not go back to stop them when they violated that agreement and we should have. This damaged our image around the world. This is similar to what has happened today although I would argue that the hit we took today is far worse than what happened in 1975.
There have been executions of people who supported our efforts there. Americans are trapped all over the country. Our retreat is disorderly. Who routed the US in Afghanistan? We have been routed by 6th century barbarians who posses a much lower military capability than we do. Joe Biden needs to be removed from power. This result cannot stand.
No one will like what I have to say. The only way to redeem ourselves is to recommit to victory. We need to invade the country with sufficient force to destroy the enemy. We need to put a civilized government in place. We committed to do this 20 years ago when we were attacked. We absolutely must see it through. Overrule Joe, don’t listen to Trump isolationists either as they are wrong as well. After 9-11 we had a duty to see this through. For our country and it’s honor we must do this. Democracy may have failed in Afghanistan but maybe we should consider something different. Afghanistan once had a successful monarchy that ruled over a very stable period. Maybe this form of government is more appropriate in Afghanistan, monarchy can be a good form of stable government. No matter what we cannot be ok with our 9-11 enemies actually winning. How are Americans not outraged? Does anyone remember what these people did to our country? We should all ask ourselves if on September 12 2001 if we would have been ok with this outcome. Doesn’t anyone remember 9-11?
I agree completely with your premise here. However I would deign to bring up a couple things hiding twixt the lines. This is not the first time the US has been defeated by a militarily inferior enemy. That would be of course Viet Nam. Military capabilities are negated by the dedication and resolve of the men fighting. The Afghan army and before that the Iragi army bring that into sharp focus. They both had the weapons, but they had no heart.
US personnel fought in Afghanistan for 20 years. They pummeled the Taliban hard. The Taliban gave back pummeling of their own. With ratty old Russian occupation weapons from small arms to heavy machine guns,IEDs made from whatever they could get their hands on, they even had Stinger missiles we sent them when they called themselves the Mujahhideen they kept fighting with zeal because...well..They're zealots. My Dad had a copy of Ngyuen Giap's Peoples War Peoples Army that I read and re read starting in the 6th grade. I really got a handle on it when I was a freshman in high school.
I also had long deep conversations with my Dad about the things outlined in it and also about US strategy and tactics in Viet Nam and now I've seen history repeat itself like clockwork. Since and during Viet Nam our military has been hamstrung by politics. The executive and legislative branches have saddled our military with "ROEs" that try to balance the "hawk and dove" ideologies. It doesn't work. And yet even though that is starkly obvious the US continues to operate that way. The hawk and the dove do not have a symbiotic relationship. The hawk eats the dove whilst the dove tries to stop it by fleeing headlong. They don't occupy the same branch or nest in the same tree.
Is it any wonder these "armies" we've "trained" collapse like a house of cards when we turn the fighting over to them? The enemy has focus, determination, and above it all fanatical devotion and a willingness to die for their cause. Fanatical fighting spirit, vicious killer instinct, damnit they fight to WIN. Or die trying. We didn't put that nature into any army we have "trained". We haven't fought to win since WW2.
What you say needs to happen is dead on, and I agree. But it does leave out one critical factor which I have outlined above. If you can lay hands on a copy of Giap's book it's well worth reading more than once unless you have a photographic memory. Our current leadership is woefully incapable of defeating the Talee Ban. The previous administration? Maybe. Can't say with certainty and the leftists in the legislative branch hang like a lead ingot on the neck of any military effort. Still. your premise is dead on. Were that it could be so simple and direct....
This changes nothing. Biden is doing the right thing by getting out of Afghanistan. The only mistake made is remaining there after the diplomats and embassy workers were taken out. The civilians living in Afghanistan had 18 months to buy a ticket and leave. No US soldier should die or get wounded trying to rescue them from their own failure to leave. As for the "translators" Trump failed to process any visas for them, so they are SOL. Sorry, bye-bye.
Nope nope nope nope. Crap argument, weak argument, joke of an argument. Trump's withdrawal plan was set to begin in May to avoid a takeover as the fighting season approached (yes, there's an actual fighting season and it begins in July over there.) Democrats also got in the way of this plan constantly. But Trump, Pompeo, and many others met with Taliban leaders at camp David to discuss negotiations on us withdrawing. Multiple sources confirmed before the negotiations began that Trump made it very clear to the Taliban leader that if so much as a finger from their hand touches an American, that he'd unleash the full force of our military on them and would blow them into the next century.
And they believed him, especially when he pointed out that he new where their hideout was, and reminded them what he did to Al Baghdadi and Soleimani. They feared Trump because they knew he meant what he said. Hence why we didn't lose a single American last year. Bush had some successful moments there, but we should've never gone there in the first place.
Obama had the chance to pull us out and didn't. Trump handled it exceptionally well. We took out multiple leaders, took out ISIS (sadly their back thanks to your President), and had control of Afghanistan. Biden came in and unraveled all of it.
Sorry, but that's the harsh truth. Your President is a failure and has blood on his hands. My God, the lengths people like you go to defend that loser of a President.
Bolded your key points. As the world's superpower this is key. Not singing Peter, Paul, & Mary songs with the Taliban, but being willing to erase them from the planet if needed. Then demonstrating other examples with similar terrorists where you have done so.
The Taliban is currently on their "best behavior" with regards to American Citizens.
This was Isis, who are bent on creating chaos and embarrassing the US AND the Taliban.
The Taliban has shown exceptional, and uncharacteristic restraint during this evacuation and everyone who is paying attention has noted it.
Are you seriously defending a terrorist organization?! What the hell is wrong with you?! The Taliban took over the country. And seeing has they took all of their military equipment we left behind, as well as Al Qaeda confirming to the Taliban that they have their backs against threats like the US and even ISIS, it's pretty clear who's running the show.
I don't know where you're getting your information from, but my God is it inaccurate.
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What the hell is wrong with you?! The Taliban took over the country. And seeing has they took all of their military equipment we left behind, as well as Al Qaeda confirming to the Taliban that they have their backs against threats like the US and even ISIS, it's pretty clear who's running the show.
