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How many orphans have YOU personally fostered? Whats your skin in this game?
Have you ever looked into adopting a baby?? There are dozens of couples competing to adopt every single child that is put up for adoption. My wife and I have looked into it but saw zero chance of successfully adopting a newborn baby.
We live among other humans. Everything we do touches others, even if we are alone in the wilderness. off the grid growing our own food.
Whether a woman gets an abortion or not affects all of us. Another person needs to be cared for, fed, watered, educated, and their medical needs met.
So do the people who have or have not been vaccinated. Should they get covid and need medical attention, it comes out of the collective purse, either through taxes or insurance. Needless to say, the people who care for them in hospital.
Some of us think their personal responsibility is theirs alone. It is not. That's fantasy thinking.
Please cite the law where human life is defined as beginning at birth. I'm unaware of any such law.
And pregnancy is just like all other stages of life. I might get hit by a car and die tomorrow through no fault of my own. A woman might miscarry at 5 months.
But as civilized human beings, we've made it a rule that we're not allowed to intentionally snuff out the life of another human being.
A person refusing to vaccinate is not overtly harming anyone. COVID-19 is the thing that is hurting people. We haven't banned people from drinking, smoking, consuming caffeine, being morbidly obese, etc. in spite of the rather obvious fact that these all cause people to die. The list of things that should be banned "because you or others might die" should logically include driving a car, or even leaving your home ever. A person refusing vaccination is no different than a smoker or an alcoholic: The person has the right to continue to engage in risky behavior and nobody has the right to stop them. I think most people should be vaccinated. When it comes to people under 18, I need to see more data since COVID-19 almost never seriously affects children, but I'm still open to the idea. But I do not have the right to tell anyone what they can or cannot do with their own bodies.
A pregnant woman is two bodies and two human lives. That's the difference.
The difference is you have no right to tell a pregnant woman what she gets to do. Just because a woman’s body can get pregnant and give birth doesn’t mean she has to do that. Civilized? Please restricting a woman choice to two, essentially forcing her to give birth (because she had sex) isn’t the least bit civilized. Mind your sperm. Why do you understand choice when it comes to a vaccine but not with a woman’s own body along with 18 years of support?
Have you ever looked into adopting a baby?? There are dozens of couples competing to adopt every single child that is put up for adoption. My wife and I have looked into it but saw zero chance of successfully adopting a newborn baby.
There’s the catch, a newborn. There are 250 thousand available children in foster care….annually. Adoption not so successful for these kids
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Have you ever looked into adopting a baby?? There are dozens of couples competing to adopt every single child that is put up for adoption. My wife and I have looked into it but saw zero chance of successfully adopting a newborn baby.
Your right the demand for healthy white babies is very high but for those born of mixed parentage/minority or have some challenge that will have to be addressed the demand isn't so high. For kids that don't get picked up at the start it gets harder and harder each year....
Time to strike down fetal homicide laws on the basis of an Equal Rights Clause violation. Carving out an exception for some members of the general public but not others to commit a homicide that is otherwise a crime is unconstitutional. They also can be shown to be a violation of the Civil Rights Act as all men are subject to prosecution but all women are not. Sex-based discrimination.
Go for it.
All women are subject to fetal homicide laws. If I kill you while you are pregnant and the fetus does not survive, I'm subject to fetal homicide laws.
There’s the catch, a newborn. There are 250 thousand available children in foster care….annually. Adoption not so successful for these kids
Older children are no the product of, "Oops! Should have got an abortion." The only outcome that abortion precludes is a newborn baby.
The thousands of older children definitely matter, but they're completely irrelevant to this discussion. These are kids who had parents. Something bad happened and they now have no parents, or have been removed from the custody of their parents. Some of them are messed up for life and will engage in destructive behavior if/when adopted. Prospective adoptive parents tend to hesitate for that very reason. And older children will often never acknowledge their adoptive parents as their legitimate parents. If you're adopting a 10 year old kid, you're likely signing up for a whole lot of craziness that's got nothing to do with you. We need to figure something better out for these kids, but they're not the product of a woman choosing adoption over abortion, so that's a topic for another thread.
If you want to connect adoption to abortion, then the adoption of newborn babies is the only relevant measure. If we reach a point where there are more newborn babies than couples desperately trying to adopt them, then we can start talking about, "Have you adopted?" The supply of newborn babies is vastly smaller than the demand for them. No pregnant woman needs to even ask themselves, "If I go through with this pregnancy and put him or her up for adoption, will anyone actually adopt them?" We already know the answer: Yes! Many, many, many couples are waiting in line for the chance to adopt your baby!! There is so much competition for newborn babies that the child you give birth to will likely have an above average life.
Older children are no the product of, "Oops! Should have got an abortion." The only outcome that abortion precludes is a newborn baby.
The thousands of older children definitely matter, but they're completely irrelevant to this discussion. These are kids who had parents. Something bad happened and they now have no parents, or have been removed from the custody of their parents. Some of them are messed up for life and will engage in destructive behavior if/when adopted. Prospective adoptive parents tend to hesitate for that very reason. And older children will often never acknowledge their adoptive parents as their legitimate parents. If you're adopting a 10 year old kid, you're likely signing up for a whole lot of craziness that's got nothing to do with you. We need to figure something better out for these kids, but they're not the product of a woman choosing adoption over abortion, so that's a topic for another thread.
If you want to connect adoption to abortion, then the adoption of newborn babies is the only relevant measure. If we reach a point where there are more newborn babies than couples desperately trying to adopt them, then we can start talking about, "Have you adopted?" The supply of newborn babies is vastly smaller than the demand for them. No pregnant woman needs to even ask themselves, "If I go through with this pregnancy and put him or her up for adoption, will anyone actually adopt them?" We already know the answer: Yes! Many, many, many couples are waiting in line for the chance to adopt your baby!! There is so much competition for newborn babies that the child you give birth to will likely have an above average life.
Connect the dots. These are children born from an unwanted pregnancy. Many adoption have great results. Not all. Many adoptive children don’t have above average life. Women are not breeding stock for others. So why do you understand choice for vaccines but won’t apply it to a woman’s life?
It's either always murder or it's always not murder.
A woman gets to control her body is not comparable to a criminal victimizing and killing a fully realized person.
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