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Starting a business requires revenue. Often in the form of a loan. Also you need to have the luck to not need healthcare, etc. just saying “employees can start a business does not mean it is feasible”. 50 percent fail in 5 years.
During most times an employer has a greater amount of freedom. They can choose to hire someone else. They can choose to go without hiring and do more work themselves. They can import workers or outsource. Employees are almost always more limited.
Just because this year is different doesn’t define a trend.
If it was an equal relationship then please explain why the Gini coefficient for America is so much higher than decades ago. By your argument, if there was an equal and willing entry into the relationship between employer than employee then economic inequality would be at least stable, not rising.
The US Gini coefficient is higher than that of European countries, too. A major factor in why the wealth and income gaps keep widening in the US is our tax system. It's backwards. I'll let an economist explain it...
Quote:
[Economist Anatole] "Kaletsky argues that over-reliance on progressives taxes creates "a perverse incentive for governments to promote income inequality. If the solvency of the state and the ability to fund basic services for the poorest people in society depends on the rich getting even richer, it is tempting for even the most progressive politicians to support widening inequalities."
Got that? If the solvency of the state and the ability to fund basic services for the poorest people in society depends on the rich getting even richer, it is tempting for even the most progressive politicians to support widening inequalities.
That's exactly what happens in the US: the rich keep getting richer, and that's the inherent fatal flaw in a progressive tax system; it distorts and exacerbates income/wealth inequality by necessity in order to maximize tax revenue. The Europeans (including the Scandinavians) have figured that out, and therefore rely most heavily on regressive taxes such as VAT and MUCH flatter income tax brackets.
Why don't we just tax regressively like European countries? (Read the scatter plot chart at the link, below.) That removes the perverse incentive for Congress to act in ways that widen the income and therefore the wealth gap.
I'm good with a flat tax rate. Everyone pays the same percentage of their income.
That might be OK, as long as all income is consider equally. No lower rates for capital gains. No tax shelters. No deductions for mortgage interest or charitable donations.
That might be OK, as long as all income is consider equally. No lower rates for capital gains. No tax shelters. No deductions for mortgage interest or charitable donations.
No deductions for children, etc. I agree, no deductions.
But you do know that wealth is not the same as income, right? Elon Musk is estimated at $250 bils does not mean he has literally that much in cash. I doubt that any of the billionaires have literally billions in cash.
Yes, I understand there's a difference. That's why I explicitly said we should tax the wealth of the ultra-rich, not the income.
But you do know that wealth is not the same as income, right? Elon Musk is estimated at $250 bils does not mean he has literally that much in cash. I doubt that any of the billionaires have literally billions in cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii
Yes, I understand there's a difference. That's why I explicitly said we should tax the wealth of the ultra-rich, not the income.
So... How many employees do you want Musk to eliminate in order to generate enough liquidity to pay that wealth tax? Same question
for all the other billionaires.
The mistake you're making is thinking that billionaires just have tons of extra cash lying around. They don't. It's all invested in ventures that provide jobs for other people.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
So... How many employees do you want Musk to eliminate in order to generate enough liquidity to pay that wealth tax? Same question
for all the other billionaires.
The mistake you're making is thinking that billionaires just have tons of extra cash lying around. They don't. It's all invested in ventures that provide jobs for other people.
Then make a law that they can no longer take out loans against unrealized capital gains (which is what the ultra wealthy currently do)
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96
And why do they do that?
Because paying the interest on the loans is less than paying the taxes would be.
And that means taxes are too high.
Most people don't start looking for ways to avoid taxes as long as the taxes are reasonable.
It's when the amount of taxes being paid becomes unreasonable that people look for means to avoid them.
Rich people think any amount of taxes are unreasonable, because they think they earned all their money in a vacuum, and that anything that is taxed will go to "those awful poors who don't deserve one crumb of it"
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Why? That would also mean no one could ever take out a collateralized loan like a mortgage, etc. Are you sure that's what you really want?
Sure, if people had to pay cold hard cash for homes, watch home prices tumble, which would fix the housing crisis
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