Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This ex oligarch wants payback …..we’ll see . Have to hope other oligarchs will match it…maybe another bounty on Putin’s family might hit home with Putin.
It’s an undeniable and inconvenient fact at this point. They exist and we are arming them. Like I said, watch Oliver Stones documentaries if you want to be informed, it’s worth the time.
And I agree with the poster above who said Putin is using it as rational for invasion, it is not a valid reason for war.
Oliver Stone's Ukraine films like many other documentaries are not good sources. Film-makers tend to take a point of view - to make for good watching - then not only selectively choose events but to drive home a point obscure important facts. Sometimes deliberately, sometimes due to the medium.
For example, Stepan Bandera absolutely was a bad guy ... there were Ukrainians cooperating with the Nazis ... Ukrainians did kill Jews. There were, however, multiple groups that acted differently. When it suits Stone, he will be precise (using the word OUM-B, with the B referring to Bandera) ... then pick an action from a different organization (but then NOT correctly call it the OUM-M only saying the OUM) ... then cut to, say, a watcher-horrifying event like Babi-Yar and use the noun militia, leaving the viewer with the impression he is still talking about Stepan Bandera. Who at that point was in a Nazi concentration camp!
This sleight of hand is easier to pick up in print, as an astute reader becomes confused.
That said, the "truth" is hard to come by. History was written using documents then available. Some documents were destroyed, with accounts not verifiable. More have since been released.
Almost certainly some Ukrainian history has been sanitized but then that is also true of the "other side." The Russians led by the NKVD were also actors at that time slaughtering the innocents. With Ukrainian nationalists fighting back against the NKVD and Russian re-occupation, many of whom had nothing to do with Bandera or with Nazism.
As for the present, Russian separatists soon aided by Russian nationals spurred on and weaponized by Putin turned to violence in the Donbass. Russian separatists were mystified when Putin did not move to annex Donbass in 2014, thinking themselves betrayed. Frankly I think Putin wanted to create a festering sore. The man is not a fool, and he is strategic.
At that time, the Ukrainian army believing it needed the support of local militias did weaponize groups like the Azov battalion that fought 'outside the rules.' By 2017, it had better control over the so-called nationalist militias but with the situation still unsettled never moved to try to fully disband them.
Once again, these battalions are fighting and are armed, yes. With the Ukrainian army not being able to (fully) direct them. It's possible (per Twitter) that the army sent a missile into the Azov headquarters in Mariupol the other day that killed 20 Azov fighters the other day - to make a point.
The situation is very complicated and very very propagandized. Putin certainly has become a world problem. He seems to want to control Ukraine for multiple reasons that many observers think driven more by emotion and anger and nostalgia than political reality.
Still, the new political reality is that Putin can take Ukraine. Instead of Donbass being a regional flashpoint now Ukraine becomes a cold-war style flashpoint. Listen to Putin himself to see what he wants. He's laid out his view of history in various speeches.
This is the biggest line of BS. It would be like a foreign country invading the US and claiming that the "Proud Boys" are evidence of Nazis so they invaded all of the US to kill the Nazis. Nobody beyond the most simple minded people would buy into this.
You say that, but realize there are plenty of simple-minded people ready willing and able to swallow any propaganda that makes them feel good. Trump's Big Lie comes to mind. And now we have Putin's Big Lie. Is it a coincidence that both propaganda machines operate the same way?
Once he has secured all of Ukraine he will most likely begin the process of reassembling his armies in Belarus to attack the Balkans. The fact that these countries are part of NATO means nothing to him.
Do you really believe that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave
Putin is absolutely insane enough to test our resolve by lobbing a nuke onto US soil somewhere.
I ask again, do you really believe that?
I am truly curious; I'm not being sarcastic. And if you do believe that, why?
There is zero chance that Ukraine's forces will prevail against Russia without NATO support, that's just a fantasy. Russia won't hesitate to target civilians and civilian infrastructure, in order to terrorize the remaining population and ultimately to crush all opposition. And they are also targeting historic and cultural sites, because their ultimate goal is to wipe out any trace of the Ukrainian culture.
The only question that remains is how long it will take Putin to have full control in both East and West Ukraine. Once he has secured all of Ukraine he will most likely begin the process of reassembling his armies in Belarus to attack the Balkans. The fact that these countries are part of NATO means nothing to him.
NATO will come to the defense of the Balkans, and then we will truly be in WW3. It is anyone's guess where it will go given Putin's megalomania. Better break out those Nuclear War Survival manuals, because this time around it's more than a vague fear on the horizon somewhere. Putin is absolutely insane enough to test our resolve by lobbing a nuke onto US soil somewhere.
Wrong!!! Some perspective here....it took 1.4 million Nazi's to occupy Ukraine alone during WW2. Russia can barely make its initial combat objectives with the forces it has and is losing equipment and men. That is the big miscalculation here....the Ukrainians are being led and are really the only crack military units in this campaign. Russia does not have the resources to pacify or occupy Ukraine. Plus they already are getting NATO support....much of it being covert.
There is zero chance that Ukraine's forces will prevail against Russia without NATO support, that's just a fantasy. Russia won't hesitate to target civilians and civilian infrastructure, in order to terrorize the remaining population and ultimately to crush all opposition. And they are also targeting historic and cultural sites, because their ultimate goal is to wipe out any trace of the Ukrainian culture.
The only question that remains is how long it will take Putin to have full control in both East and West Ukraine. Once he has secured all of Ukraine he will most likely begin the process of reassembling his armies in Belarus to attack the Balkans. The fact that these countries are part of NATO means nothing to him.
NATO will come to the defense of the Balkans, and then we will truly be in WW3. It is anyone's guess where it will go given Putin's megalomania. Better break out those Nuclear War Survival manuals, because this time around it's more than a vague fear on the horizon somewhere. Putin is absolutely insane enough to test our resolve by lobbing a nuke onto US soil somewhere.
Balkans or Baltics?
Launching an attack from Belarus on the Balkans would mean crossing Ukraine as well as NATO member Romania.
The Baltics OTOH... Estonia borders Russia but not Belarus, and Latvia and Lithuania borders both (Lithuania borders Russia's Kalinngrad oblast [an exclave of Russia that was once part of German East Prussia]).
You asked for evidence I provided it. I didn’t like what I discovered either after taking time to understand some of the history. Here is some more information.
Come on, on the globaltimes very own website, they say they are China's most informative English language newspaper. It's Chinese propaganda.
I skimmed the article quickly finding some accurate (sort of), certainly that US funded weapons have found their way to nationalist battalions. The problem again comes is that the author has a point-of-view.
What he does NOT tell you is this: it is the effort to control the militias that led the Ukrainian government to bring them into a sort of "national guard."
More, many militias - both Russian and Ukrainian and no doubt others - contain men who roam from conflict to conflict. When fighting is quiet in Donbass, they go elsewhere. For example,
Quote:
A well-known Russian soldier implicated in war crimes in eastern Ukraine has now been spotted in Syria. ... Motorola's presence could actaully help Russia put a popular face on its Syria deployment. Motorola first gained prominence during his time as the head of the Sparta Battalion in eastern Ukraine. The militia group gained prominence after it seized the Donetsk Airport in January 2015, effectively routing the Ukrainian troops posted there. ... Motorola told the Georgian Journal that he had previously served as a Russian soldier in the Chechen War in the 1990s. In the years between the fighting in Chechnya and Ukraine, Motorola allegedly ran a car wash in Russia close to the Ukrainian border. Motorola said that after being arrested for drunk driving in a stolen car, he chose to fight in Ukraine over serving a prison sentence. https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...n-syria-2015-9
What he outright misleads you about is this:
Quote:
According to a Yahoo News article from January 2022, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been secretly training forces for Ukraine since 2015. The CIA has been overseeing a secret intensive training program in the US "for elite Ukrainian special operations forces and other intelligence personnel," the article quoted "five former intelligence and national security officials familiar with the initiative" as saying.
There is nothing "secret" about this. But the training program was NOT for militias but to create special forces within the Ukrainian army. To give THEM the kind of training to where the Ukrainian army could be more effective against Russians like the Sparta Battalion (and, I would infer, depend less on groups like the Ukrainian Azov Battalion).
VICE embedded a reporter with them. Go back and read the article again. The author never SAID the U.S. training was for a militia only wanted you the reader to think that.
You are falling for propaganda - and not very good propaganda at that. . Don't you see ... just like Stone wanted you to think that OUM-B was OUM-M was some other militia. This author wanted you to confuse Ukrainian special forces with a Nazi-style militia.
Abramovich tried to sell Chelsea is $4 billion (USD), with one offer of $3.3 billion having already been previously rejected.
However the club has now been seized and he will receive no future operating profits and nothing from the club's sale.
Abramovich has also has $433 million worth of property (Houses) seized in London.
Abramovich's yachts are in Montenegro and moving eastward, the Eclipse is valued at $372 million (USD), whilst the Solaris is valued at $600 million (USD).
There are other vast houses, property and wealth relating to numerous Oligarchs in the UK, Europe and throughout the world.
Last edited by Brave New World; 03-13-2022 at 11:31 AM..
I am truly curious; I'm not being sarcastic. And if you do believe that, why?
Yes I really believe that Putin has little fear of NATO. Putin's desire to re-assemble the glory of the former Soviet Union overcomes any logical constraint he might have in attacking a NATO country.
History shows us how tyrants like Putin think and behave. There are a lot of similarities between Hitler and Putin, in terms of their psychology. Both are highly irrational, and both exist in a bubble where they have lost their grasp of the realities on the ground. Ultimately, this led to Hitler's defeat but that was because he was stretched thin on multiple fronts, and before he completed the development of the A-bomb.
It's a completely different game for Russia. Putin has access to the biggest nuclear arsenal in the world. He has warned us that he is prepared to use these weapons if we attempt to thwart his aggression. He's not exaggerating.
I absolutely think that he would be willing to test our resolve by detonating a nuke on US soil somewhere. Would we really respond in kind, and trigger off MAD? Putin is most likely willing to take that risk - he doesn't think we would retaliate, and he may very well be right. And if we don't he has an unprecedented opportunity to expand the Russian empire.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
