Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Once more - remove government from literally every aspect of college in the US. Every nook, every cranny, every dark corner. Not one penny from any level of government goes to college. No loans, no grants, no state funding, nothing.
College will be far more competitively priced in like 3 seconds. You'd see useless departments, administrators and fluff disappear literally overnight once the government spigots get turned off. Take away the trillionaire guaranteeing the payments no matter what you charge, reestablish competition among providers who now actually have to fight for market share with price in addition to reputation, and watch prices plummet.
You want to completely privatize college which may or may not work. There's already a hole slew of for-profit education companies and they are not cheap, in fact they are outright expensive. Students are leaving for-profit colleges with loans that equal or exceed traditional colleges so I'm not sure that a capitalistic approach to education is the answer.
I'm really surprised to find out that my "bad education" state (as painted by teachers orgs and the ivory tower crowd) is actually a GOOD education state because:
a. we have a robust community college system that's pretty well-subsidized from the State budget.
b. there's an agreement with the State U system to transfer in, with all relevant credits.
c. the CC system does have trade programs, nursing programs, and locale-specific credits & training (like, in areas where "tech" is relevant based on employers, then they can get tech skills/degree.
And CC runs about 1/5 of the State U system per year (tuition only). Anyone can afford it by living at home and with a part-time job. Have some extenuating circumstances where you have to get out on your own? Work more hours, and get roommates.
If more people actually looked into it, they'd likely find the same in their states. And you're correct to mention that what frequently gets overlooked is that community colleges have trade programs for those pursuing a blue collar path. Many of those trades present the opportunity for earning a very good living. Anyone who's had to pay an electrician, plumber, HVAC technician, mechanic, etc., for a service call lately already knows that.
After 10 years of payments, the Federal Government forgives the outstanding balance of Direct Student Loans for employees of Federal, state, county and local governments. This includes public school teachers. It also forgives loan balances for employees of qualifying not for profits. This includes most hospitals.
One does not need to be employed by a qualifying entity for 10 years- just 10 years of payments. One does not need to be an MD or RN or a licensed teacher to qualify. The benefit applies to all employees of qualifying institutions.
not sure about the MD's (I'd think almost all are employees of practices, not the hospital), but here's a couple of links if folks are interested...
I guess philosophy and art should not be viable degrees, right? Nor should environmental sociology, right?
Let me tell you a little story.
My son-in-law has the first degree off philosophy with an art minor. His masters degree is in Environmental Science.
My daughter's first degree is in Environmental sociology, and her second degree is in Education.
He has a well paying job, just got promoted to regional (large region, larger than some States) manager, which is even a more well paying job. My daughter is well paid as a teacher. (My jurisdiction does not believe in cheaping out on teacher's salaries).
They bought their first house just before my first grandchild was born. They had three children over a 8 year period after that. My daughter did not work until all children were in school. He was able to provide for the family on his family alone, and due to good fortune in the real estate market, were able to pay off both student loans as they trade up on houses.
The point is, their first degrees were "useless", right? I mean, WTF, Philosophy???
What many who demean that degree in particular, and "soft artsy fartsy" degrees in general don't realize that the basis of much science uses philosophy. Here is an excellent (but longer) article of why and solid example.
Don't demean those degrees you may not understand. A society needs all types of people to function, not just doctors or welders or business owners.
there's the difference.
Nobody cares if Skip goes to Harvard and blows $300K of his parents' money in 4 years to get his Political Science degree.
We care when Skylar goes to Mount Marymount private college at $200K she chooses to borrow all of and then her double Philosophy/Ancient Cultures degree doesn't yield her a job that allows her to repay the debt.
I guess philosophy and art should not be viable degrees, right? Nor should environmental sociology, right?
Let me tell you a little story.
My son-in-law has the first degree off philosophy with an art minor. His masters degree is in Environmental Science.
My daughter's first degree is in Environmental sociology, and her second degree is in Education.
He has a well paying job, just got promoted to regional (large region, larger than some States) manager, which is even a more well paying job. My daughter is well paid as a teacher. (My jurisdiction does not believe in cheaping out on teacher's salaries).
They bought their first house just before my first grandchild was born. They had three children over a 8 year period after that. My daughter did not work until all children were in school. He was able to provide for the family on his family alone, and due to good fortune in the real estate market, were able to pay off both student loans as they trade up on houses.
The point is, their first degrees were "useless", right? I mean, WTF, Philosophy???
What many who demean that degree in particular, and "soft artsy fartsy" degrees in general don't realize that the basis of much science uses philosophy. Here is an excellent (but longer) article of why and solid example.
Don't demean those degrees you may not understand. A society needs all types of people to function, not just doctors or welders or business owners.
Sorry but philosophy degrees and similar degrees are nonsense. Your son being successful doesn't change that. I'm sure there are some kids with STEM degrees who are failures as well but that doesn't change the fact that overall they are valuable and degrees in liberal arts nonsense aren't. Someone doesn't need to spend 6 figures to study philosophy and end up with no real world skills from it. If you want to study philosophy you can do so nearly for free between books and the internet.
Anecdotes don't prove anything. Look you love your son and you're proud of him which I understand. But the government should not be making these kinds of loans because normsdad on citydata's son is successful with a degree that for most people is a total waste of money. They should be making loans the way any other loans are made- using actuaries to determine the appropriate risk levels and in this case future earning potential. That's it. No insurance company in the world would sell life insurance to a 98 year old for the same monthly rate as a healthy 25 year old. They would go under a short amount of time. But surely there is a 98 year old out there today who will outlive some healthy 25 year old. It doesn't prove anything overall. It's an anecdote and not what insurance companies should use to conduct future business, same as with your son's degree.
I love baseball and its history. But nobody in there right mind would lend me 6 figures to take classes on it. But imagine if they did. I'd be out there ten years later complaining i can't get a good job, i can't pay my loans poor me blah blah blah. But change that to art history and anyone with a pulse who barely got through high school can get a big loan from the government for it which is absurd.
The government lending huge amounts of money to any 18 year old who wants it for any kind of degree with why tuition is so high. If the college themselves wouldn't lend 100k to a kid to get some nonsense degree that tells you all you need to know.
This country also needs a lot more trade schools.
Last edited by djohnslaw; 03-01-2022 at 09:48 AM..
Paying for college/university is all kinds of crazy insane expensive. So if we were to really tackle it, what do you think would be the best way? I mean I hear of all these people having $100,000 in debt. Like what the hell? Far as I am concerned college should never cost anything more than $10-20 thousands at worst.
I'm not sure. My fiancee has near 200k of debt from college to phd program. On the other hand all I have is a 4 year degree from CUNY which I paid for from a deqe end job. Btw I'm happy with my degree. Sadly I work in construction management and not in court public practice.
I'm not sure. My fiancee has near 200k of debt from college to phd program. On the other hand all I have is a 4 year degree from CUNY which I paid for from a deqe end job. Btw I'm happy with my degree. Sadly I work in construction management and not in court public practice.
I also have a CUNY degree and was even paid to go to school between tap, pell, scholarships and the low tuition. I had friends who laughed at me for going to cuny who are now buried in debt from college closing in on 40 years old. I'm sure they had a lot more fun than I did in college but my family had no money and I wasn't going to borrow a ton of money to get a degree. I have other friends who at least went to a cuny or community college for 2 years and then transferred. I went to Brooklyn Tech which had something like a 98 percent rate of graduates going to college and even that wasn't enough for what teachers and guidance counselors pushed on us. They told us to go to school for anything we wanted and it was ok to borrow tons of money in the process They tried to push me to going to other schools borrowing 6 figures in the process. I had ONE really good teacher, who went completely off of the syllabus and taught us a lot about personal finance, how compound interest works, how the stock market works, how credit cards work etc. He also correctly told us that what your degree in does matter, not to bury yourself in debt for school unless it's going to be worth the investment like medical school etc. I mean sure if I had some college fund it would have been awesome to go away to school, party for 4 years, get laid all the time and come out owing nothing. But that wasn't my reality.
As someone who installed flooring for 45 years, I can tell you there are many learn-on-the-job occupations.
Flooring, roofing, drywall, HVAC, plumbing. The ones that require a license down the road can be learned on the job, then you can go after a license. Most building trades are crying for help. $1,000 a week for a helper is not uncommon.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If more people actually looked into it, they'd likely find the same in their states. And you're correct to mention that what frequently gets overlooked is that community colleges have trade programs for those pursuing a blue collar path. Many of those trades present the opportunity for earning a very good living. Anyone who's had to pay an electrician, plumber, HVAC technician, mechanic, etc., for a service call lately already knows that.
They tried to push me to going to other schools borrowing 6 figures in the process. I had ONE really good teacher, who went completely off of the syllabus and taught us a lot about personal finance, how compound interest works, how the stock market works, how credit cards work etc. He also correctly told us that what your degree in does matter, not to bury yourself in debt for school unless it's going to be worth the investment like medical school etc. I mean sure if I had some college fund it would have been awesome to go away to school, party for 4 years, get laid all the time and come out owing nothing. But that wasn't my reality.