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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.50%
No 245 50.94%
Unsure 46 9.56%
Voters: 481. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-02-2022, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,729,107 times
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From ISW

The Long-Term Risks of a Premature Ceasefire in Ukraine

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...sefire-ukraine

Quote:
Dec 2, 2022 - Press ISW

The wise-seeming counsel of seeking compromise with Russia at a point of high leverage for Ukraine is a dangerous folly now. It merely puts off and makes even more dangerous the risks we fear today. It might make sense to buy time in this way if time favored us. But it does not—time favors our adversaries. Accepting risk now to reduce the risk of worse disaster in the future is the wisest and most prudent course of action for the US, NATO, and Ukraine.

Last edited by JohnBoy64; 12-02-2022 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:57 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,786,454 times
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Peace negotiation is underway. Biden and Putin reject the other's position. This is how negotiations start. Each side stakes a claim and work their way through. As I have said before, it is not up Ukraine, unfortunately.

Biden: Peace talks only happen after Russian troops leave Ukraine.

Putin: That's not acceptable.

Putin: Annexation of Ukrainian lands have to be recognized first before any peace talk.

Biden: Not acceptable.
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Old 12-02-2022, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,729,107 times
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ISW Update 12/2

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-december-2

Quote:
Dec 2, 2022 - Press ISW

Russia is attempting to capitalize on the Western desire for negotiations to create a dynamic in which Western officials feel pressed to make preemptive concessions to lure Russia to the negotiating table. Russian President Vladimir Putin held an hour-long telephone conversation with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on December 2 in which Putin falsely stated that Western financial and military aid to Ukraine creates a situation in which the Ukrainian government outright rejects talks between Moscow and Kyiv and called upon Scholz to reconsider Germany’s approach regarding developments in Ukraine. Scholz stated that any diplomatic solution to the conflict in Ukraine must include the withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territory. The Putin-Scholz call corresponded with a diplomatic overture from US President Joe Biden on December 1 in which Biden stated that he is prepared to speak with Putin if the Russian president is looking for a way to end the war, although Biden acknowledged that he has no immediate plans to do so.
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Old 12-02-2022, 09:35 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,575 posts, read 17,293,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
But probably nothing new, just a little more of it. Mueller report showed that the Russians helped promote rallies for Trump, Sanders and Hillary Clinton, all three!
Just kinda of points to the incompetence of Russian agents. Just amateurs hoping to land on the winning side. Sanders? The guy never had a chance in hell.

Even if the person promoted wins, Russia would be unable to capitalize.
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Old 12-02-2022, 10:00 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,786,454 times
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidha...h=34cc372e6dbc

Ukraine have received additional HIMARS rockets.

The M30A1:

Quote:
The secret of the M30A1 lies in a huge number of tungsten BBs arranged around an explosive core – about 182,000 of them. The design is from a technology known as Lethality Enhanced Ordnance developed by Orbital ATK, later acquired by Northrop Grumman NOC +2.9%. This approach uses computer modeling to calculate the optimum size, number, density and placement of fragments to ensure that a warhead produces the maximum possible effect against a specific type of target. The developers claim that the M30A1 produces the same sort of lethality as the cluster warhead. This blanketed an area of over four football fields per rocket, so a salvo of six would blanket half a square mile.
Ukraine needs this type of rockets to fight the human wave of mobilized Russian troops. People who laughed at mobilized Russian troops are wrong again. They are causing problems for Ukraine.

The AT2:

Quote:
Meanwhile other reports indicate that Ukraine is now using AT2 anti-tank mines also delivered by HIMARS rockets. The reports are based on images of mines seen on roads around Lyman. The five-pound mines have a shaped charge which fires upwards when a vehicle drives over them; other mines immobilize a tank by destroying a track, the AT2 destroys them. These mines can be laid by hand or by rocket, with 28 parachuting down from one HIMARS warhead. While some have suggested the mines in Ukraine were laid by hand, others, including Ukraine’s Defence Express say they were delivered by HIMARS, which is supported by the presence of parachutes in some images. The Russian-backed government of Donetsk has condemned the mines, noting that locals say they were delivered by rocket.
This is another great weapon that lets Ukraine deploy land mines at a great distance.


And this is what I hope will happen:

Quote:
The flow of Western weapons to Ukraine continues, and may even be accelerating. As Russian rhetoric becomes more bellicose, the restraint in supplying only certain weapon types may finally be wearing off.

Last edited by davidt1; 12-02-2022 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 12-03-2022, 02:49 AM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,828,130 times
Reputation: 37889
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Peace negotiation is underway. Biden and Putin reject the other's position. This is how negotiations start. Each side stakes a claim and work their way through. As I have said before, it is not up Ukraine, unfortunately.

Biden: Peace talks only happen after Russian troops leave Ukraine.

Putin: That's not acceptable.

Putin: Annexation of Ukrainian lands have to be recognized first before any peace talk.

Biden: Not acceptable.
Sums it up.

I suspect the best deal possible at this moment is that the Russian military leaves Ukraine, and the "relocated" Ukrainians are returned to Ukraine.

In exchange, the Russian military isn't massacred, and sanctions are eased.

No sign that the Russians will accept these terms, or that the Ukrainians will accept any less. So, that's that.
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Old 12-03-2022, 02:57 AM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,828,130 times
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Ukraine's social media campaign is something to behold.

The steady stream of clips of their soldiers playing with puppies, embracing their grandmothers, ...

Here's a soldier telling his mother not to worry, that he has eaten, has warm clothes, is wearing a hat, and that his friends are with him and they will behave well.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/st...61671560024067
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Old 12-03-2022, 06:11 AM
 
1,139 posts, read 617,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Ukraine's social media campaign is something to behold.

The steady stream of clips of their soldiers playing with puppies, embracing their grandmothers, ...

Here's a soldier telling his mother not to worry, that he has eaten, has warm clothes, is wearing a hat, and that his friends are with him and they will behave well.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/st...61671560024067
Can you blame them? Russia is the king of manipulation when it comes to propaganda... fight fire with fire.

Plus Ukraine depends on the US (and other countries) for continued monetary and political support to even stand a chance against big boy Russia.

What an utter waste of human life and resources this ridiculous war is. Putin is certainly going to burn in Hell once his time is up.
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Old 12-03-2022, 09:00 AM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,828,130 times
Reputation: 37889
Quote:
Originally Posted by HodgePodge View Post
Can you blame them? Russia is the king of manipulation when it comes to propaganda... fight fire with fire.

Plus Ukraine depends on the US (and other countries) for continued monetary and political support to even stand a chance against big boy Russia.

What an utter waste of human life and resources this ridiculous war is. Putin is certainly going to burn in Hell once his time is up.
Don't get me wrong, I think their social media campaign is awesome and you are correct that they need to do this to build continued support.

You are also right that all this is such an utter and horrible waste of human life.

Whether Putin burns in hell is anyone's guess.
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Old 12-03-2022, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,421 posts, read 9,083,924 times
Reputation: 20391
Bakhmut is now being evacuated. Just like the Russians evacuated Kherson before it fell. Russia is getting the upper hand at least for the moment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNeamP5DcFw
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