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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.34%
No 247 51.14%
Unsure 46 9.52%
Voters: 483. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2022, 02:14 PM
 
46,967 posts, read 26,011,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
If there is a settlement that Russia gets to keep any of Ukraine's territory, then they win. It's that simple. It will mean they will be rewarded with a piece of the Ukraine. How can that be interpreted as anything other than a victory?
They had control of Crimea before the war. So after destroying the better part of their armed forces and showing the world that they're no longer a regional power, they gained... Nothing? Going to be a sad parade.
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,682 posts, read 5,533,957 times
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Development today:
Quote:
The Russian forces began to withdraw some of their units, as well as to evacuate collaborators from the front-line settlements of the Zaporizhzia region.

-General Staff of Ukraine
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...94248583385095

Link contains comments. I like this one:
Quote:
Russian troops retreat victoriously. Ukrainian army runs after them in panic.
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Old 12-01-2022, 02:47 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,583 posts, read 17,304,861 times
Reputation: 37355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
If there is a settlement that Russia gets to keep any of Ukraine's territory, then they win. It's that simple. It will mean they will be rewarded with a piece of the Ukraine. How can that be interpreted as anything other than a victory?.........
Russia will declare victory.
Russia will be economically destroyed, and unable to manage their internal affairs, but they will declare victory. So in the end you will be able to say,"There! Now what did I tell you?"
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:46 PM
 
2,974 posts, read 1,985,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
It's word I made up. So far, you are the only one who can't figure it out.
Anyone else?
..and...you didn't get the joke...
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:10 PM
 
46,967 posts, read 26,011,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justus978 View Post
..."Russia will declare victory"..."Russia will be economically destroyed"

...which is it?
These are not incompatible statements.
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Anchorage
2,058 posts, read 1,668,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
If there is a settlement that Russia gets to keep any of Ukraine's territory, then they win. It's that simple. It will mean they will be rewarded with a piece of the Ukraine. How can that be interpreted as anything other than a victory?

Victory? Consolation Prize seems more applicable.
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Old 12-01-2022, 04:54 PM
bu2
 
24,108 posts, read 14,899,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Which particular conspiracy would that be? Russia planning to invade a neighboring country, or are we talking about some other theory? Nazis in power? Terrifying biolabs? No, wait - that was Russia's conspiracy theories, wasn't it?
Domestic US politics. The idea that Russia and then candidate Trump conspired to steal the 2016 election. The left has gone from "The 1980s want their foreign policy back," and "I can be more flexible after the election," to Russia as evil incarnate. Of course, Putin is doing his best to fulfill that image. The right mostly never got over the Cold War. And Putin is fulfilling their preconceptions about Russia. So now both sides dislike and fear Russia and are glad to support Ukraine.
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:12 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,231,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
Damn this guy's videos are getting more depressing all the time. I remember when he was adamant that nothing would stop the Ukraine from liberating all their territory from Russia. Now he has clearly given up on that. He has now left the Ukraine to build a life elsewhere, he doesn't say where. Now he is reporting that Russia is about to cut off Bakhmut, and there is nothing the Ukraine can do about it. And he now thinks there will be a negotiated settlement and Russia will keep Crimea. It looks like Russia has won, and the Ukrainians are beginning to realize it.
Is that how Russia defines victory now? Getting to keep Crimea? Bahkmut is militarily insignificant, pales in comparison to Kherson. Russia has made it a political goal because they need a win - any win will do - where they can say they set out to do something and did it. They are paying a huge price for it.
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:17 PM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,231,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
If there is a settlement that Russia gets to keep any of Ukraine's territory, then they win. It's that simple. It will mean they will be rewarded with a piece of the Ukraine. How can that be interpreted as anything other than a victory?

And that is looking like the most likely outcome. Even the Ukrainians can now see the handwriting on the wall.
How is that a victory by any definition? They already had Ukraine. Ukraine was not massing an army in an attempt to retake it. They were never going to try to militarily retake it. If having it is a Russian victory, they could have had that without losing 100,000 soldiers and thousands of tanks and worldwide sanctions.
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:00 PM
 
46,967 posts, read 26,011,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Domestic US politics. The idea that Russia and then candidate Trump conspired to steal the 2016 election.
Russia meddled as best they could. Used the NRA to funnel money, all that.

Did it rise to the level of "conspiring", let alone "stealing an election"? No. But they've been trying their best to deepen the fractures.
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