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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.34%
No 247 51.14%
Unsure 46 9.52%
Voters: 483. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2022, 09:31 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
You should get some books on WW2 and fill in those vast knowledge gaps.

Be sure to start with China in the early 1930's.

No...you fill in these supposed "knowledge gaps".
Inform us of this knowledge you have of other cases of military strikes that caused over 100,000 civilians killed & 100,000 civilians injured, and two cities completely destroyed...in 3 days.
It certainly was a effective "military strategy"...it was a big part of the reason they surrendered.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:05 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,084 posts, read 17,043,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
The difference is the U.S. thinks that because it is the top-dog in wealth & power that it should be able to dictate to the world...and determine who it wants to be the winner & the loser in these dust-ups the other side of the globe, at any given time. And many times it ends up bad & not being worth it.
If the world is asking for the U.S. to share its material wealth why shouldn't it dictate the terms?
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:27 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
If the world is asking for the U.S. to share its material wealth why shouldn't it dictate the terms?
I believe it should...unfortunately, the people in charge of dictating the terms have typically proven to be inept and/or corrupt & dishonest.
This current Administration giving ONE HUNDRED BILLION to the Ukraine in less than a year, a prime example of that.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,390 posts, read 19,184,321 times
Reputation: 26297
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
No...you fill in these supposed "knowledge gaps".
Inform us of this knowledge you have of other cases of military strikes that caused over 100,000 civilians killed & 100,000 civilians injured, and two cities completely destroyed...in 3 days.
It certainly was a effective "military strategy"...it was a big part of the reason they surrendered.

Brutality is necessary to win a war and dropping atomic weapons certainly qualifies. Those bombs, in that case, saved more lives than it cost, so it was the humane thing to do. My Father was getting ready to attack Japan when those bombs dropped so good chance I'm not here if they didn't drop them.

Every time I mention that handling Russia in the war requires that we consider the fact that they have nukes, idiots say just ignore that, but only fools do that.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,730,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I believe it should...unfortunately, the people in charge of dictating the terms have typically proven to be inept and/or corrupt & dishonest.
This current Administration giving ONE HUNDRED BILLION to the Ukraine in less than a year, a prime example of that.
And the majority of the American people support every penny of that aide.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:58 AM
 
2,974 posts, read 1,985,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
It's a smoke screen. Cloudy is clearly a Ruskateer. Sometimes she puts on a mask and cheers Ukraine on, but generally she is a Ruskateer who believes China will come to the aid of Russia.
...what, pray tell, is a "Ruskateer"?...do they wear puffy pantaloons armed with scabbards and sheaths?...

...let's make up some more words...
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:04 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
And the majority of the American people support every penny of that aide.
So?
"The majority of the American people" have supported a lot of things that it turned out they should not have.
Unfortunately, most are easy to feed a line of spew...they take it in, and believe it...then go along with, support, and even fervently defend it, like good little easily duped, chumps.
This situation in Ukraine is a perfect example.
You'd think that with over $100 BILLION (1.5 times Russia's entire annual Defense Budget)...that they could have spanked & ousted the aggressor force (that you all claim is so inept and weak) by now.
Instead they tell of how bad they are being damaged...about to freeze & starve...and, of course, need more BILLIONS.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:12 AM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,019,204 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
So?
"The majority of the American people" have supported a lot of things that it turned out they should not have.
Unfortunately, most are easy to feed a line of spew...they take it in, and believe it...then go along with, support, and even fervently defend it, like good little easily duped, chumps.
This situation in Ukraine is a perfect example.
You'd think that with over $100 BILLION (1.5 times Russia's entire annual Defense Budget)...that they could have spanked & ousted the aggressor force (that you all claim is so inept and weak) by now.
Instead they tell of how bad they are being damaged...about to freeze & starve...and, of course, need more BILLIONS.
So only what you think money should be spent on matters?
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,730,782 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
So?
"The majority of the American people" have supported a lot of things that it turned out they should not have.
Unfortunately, most are easy to feed a line of spew...they take it in, and believe it...then go along with, support, and even fervently defend it, like good little easily duped, chumps.
This situation in Ukraine is a perfect example.
You'd think that with over $100 BILLION (1.5 times Russia's entire annual Defense Budget)...that they could have spanked & ousted the aggressor force (that you all claim is so inept and weak) by now.
Instead they tell of how bad they are being damaged...about to freeze & starve...and, of course, need more BILLIONS.
Nope...that's not what people are seeing. Ukraine ran the Russians out of Kyiv with very little support from the west...everybody knows it takes time to move arms into the theater of war...and when they arrived...especially those HIMARS....Ukraine blitzed Kharkiv and forced the Russians out of Kherson. Those are tangible results.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-po...vasion-ukraine

Quote:
A recent Gallup Poll best showed this position. According to the poll results, 66 percent of Americans support Ukraine in reclaiming its lost territory, even if that means a prolonged war with Russia. In the same survey, 26 percent of Republicans, 35 percent of independents, and 44 percent of Democrats surveyed stated the United States was providing the right amount of aid to Ukraine. An additional 30 percent of Republicans, 35 percent of independents, and 46 percent of Democrats believed the United States was not doing enough for Ukraine. In other words, 56 percent of Republicans, 70 percent of independents, and 90 percent of Democrats believed that the United States should continue providing aid to Ukraine.

Overall, numerous polls and news outlets throughout the United States have surveyed the American public to try to understand society’s opinion about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Despite the diverse interests and backgrounds of the participants, most Americans still strongly support this Eastern European state. The polling figures suggest that the United States is ready to help Ukraine win its war until the bitter end, no matter the costs. This bodes well for Ukraine.
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Old 12-01-2022, 11:44 AM
 
46,972 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29458
Long read. Worth it.

https://static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukrai...-web-final.pdf

TLDR: Russia lost the initiative in the early days of the war due to a number of of unforced errors, the biggest trusting that they were there as a mere show of force in support of a fait-accompli decapitation strike in Kyiv. The decapitation strike fell on its ass and there appears to not have been much of a plan B.

Once they regrouped (with disproportionate losses in the process), they put Ukraine very much on the defense until Western longer-range weapons systems arrived to play havoc with their logistics. And while burdened down with serious structural issues, the Russian armed forces should not be underestimated.

For an old grunt, there's some indications that war has changed. Ukrainian companies deploy across 3 km of front(!) - that used to be a battalion front length. But in the age of drones for artillery spotting, dispersal has become necessary to survival. If you concentrate, you have to move. If you dig in, you must have hardened overhead cover.
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