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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.34%
No 247 51.14%
Unsure 46 9.52%
Voters: 483. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-29-2022, 09:56 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
Reputation: 1350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Great Russian talking point. The boys from Olgino are proud of you.

However repeating this over and over again does not make it true.

Of course Ukraine has been plagued by corruption since it opened up it's economy, just like Russia. The same sorts of characters robbed both countries blind becoming rich manipulators. We already know they have had corrupt public officials and justices but Ukraine has been working on it. The primary motivation coming from outside Ukraine has been insistence by the European Union.

If Ukraine wants into the Union badly enough, they need to clean up their act. It's a work in progress but that is their goal. Since Yanukovych ran off to his handlers in Russia the country has had two fair elections for the top office and a peaceful transfer of power. They have made tremendous progress.

Russia definitely is the most corrupt country in Europe, by far. Just look at their thoroughly corrupt military, it is on the verge of collapse through incompetence. The Russian claims here about Ukraine (which you happily repeat over and over again) are projection.

If corruption discredits Ukraine (as you seem to think), it does the very same for Russia all the more.
With Aid in money & armaments in 9 months equal to one and a half times Russia's annual Defense Budget, they can't oust this Russian force that is repeatedly claimed to be so incompetent and poor?
And they are still getting hammered and a quarter of their people have left and are refugees? What's up with that?
Zelenskyy constantly talks about how horribly they are being hurt, that many are going to freeze & starve, etc...and, of course, that they need many more billions.
What are they doing with 100 BILLION in armaments and money they already got? How is that not sufficient to depose this supposedly weak aggressor?
You'd almost think scams were going on...like "investing" that money in a theiving crypto currency company...that then kicks back a bunch of it to the political people that sent it....instead of using it to fight with.
Or feeding money to Military-Industrial Complex companies that they are heavily invested in...and that make huge political donations to them.
The reason the American People are able to constantly be ripped off the way they are....is because of the abundance of those that promote their scam and actually argue that it's legit.
Both sides do it. Like Bush/Cheney's "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that we needed to get into a war over.
So many argued the legitimacy of that huge ruse/scam...and vilified anyone critical.
Why does this happen over and over and over again?
How can people be such gullible suckers?
I guess the exploitation of deranged ideological political bias sure is easy.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:15 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Your "hundreds of hours of research" missed the Stugna-P ATGM that has sent so many T-72 turrets ballistic? Yeah, no offense, but you appear rather uninformed. Ukraine's armaments industry makes stuff the Russians can't match. Rememebr the Moskva? Built in Ukraine. Russia can't make ship's turbines any more.
That was the Soviet Union. Do you know where the Soyuz guidance and control system was made? Kharkov. (Kharkov has
been in the press a bit lately.)

Silly.

No matter what happens, Putin - and you - will try to declare it a "win". And the world will see it for what it is.
I see it for what it is. A giant money laundering and kick-back scam...and a deep & full feeding trough for the Military-Industrial Complex.
Like the many other similar scams that were put over on the easily suckered majority of the American Public

ONE HUNDRED BILLION...in less than a year. $100,000,000,000!!!
With all that money and all these great armaments and expertise you note...how come Zelenskyy is always crying about how bad they are getting hurt and suffering?
Why aren't the Russians spanked and ousted? Especially if they are as incompetent and weak as you all constantly claim?
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:25 AM
 
46,967 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29456
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I see it for what it is. A giant money laundering and kick-back scam...and a deep & full feeding trough for the Military-Industrial Complex.
Like the many other similar scams that were put over on the easily suckered majority of the American Public

ONE HUNDRED BILLION...in less than a year. $100,000,000,000!!!
With all that money and all these great armaments and expertise you note...how come Zelenskyy is always crying about how bad they are getting hurt and suffering?
Why aren't the Russians spanked and ousted? Especially if they are as incompetent and weak as you all constantly claim?
You could try to address the issues your post had with, y'know - facts. Because if those misconceptions are what you base your opinions on, well...
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,730,782 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
With Aid in money & armaments in 9 months equal to one and a half times Russia's annual Defense Budget, they can't oust this Russian force that is repeatedly claimed to be so incompetent and poor?
And they are still getting hammered and a quarter of their people have left and are refugees? What's up with that?
Zelenskyy constantly talks about how horribly they are being hurt, that many are going to freeze & starve, etc...and, of course, that they need many more billions.
What are they doing with 100 BILLION in armaments and money they already got? How is that not sufficient to depose this supposedly weak aggressor?
You'd almost think scams were going on...like "investing" that money in a theiving crypto currency company...that then kicks back a bunch of it to the political people that sent it....instead of using it to fight with.
Or feeding money to Military-Industrial Complex companies that they are heavily invested in...and that make huge political donations to them.
The reason the American People are able to constantly be ripped off the way they are....is because of the abundance of those that promote their scam and actually argue that it's legit.
Both sides do it. Like Bush/Cheney's "Weapons of Mass Destruction" that we needed to get into a war over.
So many argued the legitimacy of that huge ruse/scam...and vilified anyone critical.
Why does this happen over and over and over again?
How can people be such gullible suckers?
I guess the exploitation of deranged ideological political bias sure is easy.
Dude...are you bragging about the effects of Putin's War Crimes???? Sounds like it. What is Ukraine doing with the Billions of dollars in aide...well they kicked the (Mighty) Russians out of Kyiv...Kharkiv...Kherson...and more to come. Russia takes meters....Ukraine takes villages. Ukraine conducts conventional warfare...Russia commits War Crimes, many of which are being documented as Genocide. And you expect Ukraine and the world give in to this??? NO!!!

Putin invaded a sovereign nation (no Ukraine is not perfect but do they deserve this??)...which turned out to be a GRAVE miscalculation on his part...let's just call it STUPID. There isn't much ambiguity here...which is why the free world has responded in horror. And the world has been shocked...simply shocked at the level of incompetence of Russia's military. People inside Russia knew what was going to happen if they invaded Ukraine. I have posted this before...but listen to how eerily correct these predictions are unfolding. In 1945 the world said....Never Again....this is one of those moments.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutvYSl_TLc
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:58 AM
 
46,967 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Putin invaded a sovereign nation (no Ukraine is not perfect but do they deserve this??)...which turned out to be a GRAVE miscalculation on his part...let's just call it STUPID.
There's dark humor in the fact that Mr. Macho-Putin himself, the shirtless alpha male, is being humiliated on the world's stage by a comedian who played piano with is penis on TV.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:04 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Dude...are you bragging about the effects of Putin's War Crimes???? Sounds like it. What is Ukraine doing with the Billions of dollars in aide...well they kicked the (Mighty) Russians out of Kyiv...Kharkiv...Kherson...and more to come. Russia takes meters....Ukraine takes villages. Ukraine conducts conventional warfare...Russia commits War Crimes, many of which are being documented as Genocide. And you expect Ukraine and the world give in to this??? NO!!!

Putin invaded a sovereign nation (no Ukraine is not perfect but do they deserve this??)...which turned out to be a GRAVE miscalculation on his part...let's just call it STUPID. There isn't much ambiguity here...which is why the free world has responded in horror. And the world has been shocked...simply shocked at the level of incompetence of Russia's military. People inside Russia knew what was going to happen if they invaded Ukraine. I have posted this before...but listen to how eerily correct these predictions are unfolding. In 1945 the world said....Never Again....this is one of those moments.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OutvYSl_TLc
Please show me all the heavy protests the last time, not long ago, that Russia went into Ukraine, and took back Crimea. Biden was in office then too.
But I guess it's only significant AFTER they feed the Bidens many, many millions for no-show jobs in fields they have no expertise, where there is a language they don't speak.

Then, to really turn you all into giddy Fangirls, Zelenskyy refused to expose or investigate it when asked by your favorite all-purpose-bad-guy to be deranged over, Donald Trump. You all even impeached him for asking.

Many see this for what it is...except for those easily scammed, or those cool with it.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:07 AM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,019,204 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Please show me all the heavy protests the last time, not long ago, that Russia went into Ukraine, and took back Crimea. Biden was in office then too.
But I guess it's only significant AFTER they feed the Bidens many, many millions for no-show jobs in fields they have no expertise, where there is a language they don't speak.

Then, to really turn you all into giddy Fangirls, Zelenskyy refused to expose or investigate it when asked by your favorite all-purpose-bad-guy to be deranged over, Donald Trump. You all even impeached him for asking.

Many see this for what it is...except for those easily scammed, or those cool with it.
You say that Biden was in office when Russia invaded Crimea. Sorry, Biden was VP. Anyone who knows anything knows that VP has very little political power. The fact of the matter is that Russia invaded a part of a country that at the time no one cared much about and geologically wise didnt matter much to Europe. However, now Russia has invaded an actual country in Europe. If you cant understand why the two situations are completely different then I dont know what to tell you.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:38 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,583 posts, read 17,304,861 times
Reputation: 37355
Among the contributing events leading to this war was Germany's decision, made in 2011, to close its nuclear power plants, thus becoming more dependent on Russia.
Angela Merkel, who was educated in German Democratic Republic, was a member of the communist youth movement and speaks fluent Russian, led her countrymen down this road and justified it by pointing to the Fukushima "disaster" which injured 16 people and may have caused cancer in 1. She reckoned that a change in national policy was in order because of something that happened in Japan during a tsunami. Her people bought it.



"Learned stupidity" is the subject of Theodore Dalrymple's great article, written just before the Ukraine war began. I had heard of the concept before, where perfectly able and intelligent people become stupid and manage their lives according to this new-found stupidity.
Interesting. Not all stupid people are born that way. I have neither found nor noticed an example of cured stupidity, but remain hopeful.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:40 AM
 
12,595 posts, read 6,656,375 times
Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
You say that Biden was in office when Russia invaded Crimea. Sorry, Biden was VP. Anyone who knows anything knows that VP has very little political power. The fact of the matter is that Russia invaded a part of a country that at the time no one cared much about and geologically wise didnt matter much to Europe. However, now Russia has invaded an actual country in Europe. If you cant understand why the two situations are completely different then I dont know what to tell you.
It is The Office of The Vice President. He was in office.
And he is supposed to be Mr. Foreign Policy...and even went as a emissary back then.
They did next to nothing to help...beyond sending blankets and some rations.

What I wanna see is all the cries of, "Putin invaded a sovereign nation...which is why the free world has responded in horror!!", and the related pearl-clutching from you all at that time.
Strange that you all never said squat. Why not?
Because you are all a bunch of disingenuous and dishonest posers that get off on being fleeced...that's why.
The Political Officials are getting rich off of it...but I have no clue the allegiance of the giddy Fangirls. I guess deranged ideological bias is that strong.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:46 AM
 
5,222 posts, read 3,019,204 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
It is The Office of The Vice President. He was in office.
And he is supposed to be Mr. Foreign Policy...and even went as a emissary back then.
They did next to nothing to help...beyond sending blankets and some rations.

What I wanna see is all the cries of, "Putin invaded a sovereign nation...which is why the free world has responded in horror!!", and the related pearl-clutching from you all at that time.
Strange that you all never said squat. Why not?
Because you are all a bunch of disingenuous and dishonest posers that get off on being fleeced...that's why.
The Political Officials are getting rich off of it...but I have no clue the allegiance of the giddy Fangirls. I guess deranged ideological bias is that strong.
You can try to make a big deal about Biden being in office when Russia Crimea all you want. Still doesnt change the fact that he was VP and VPs dont have much power. Its reality.

You keep repeating the last part of your post over and over. Already been explained. Please come up with something new. Thank you.
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