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At least two people in the linked video (below) indicate that while you may 'think' what you posted above is true, the goal is actually to strategically sneak a plan in that will lull Americans into a false sense of confidence that they can 'keep' their private health insurance while we transition to a single-payer government health care system.
Watch Jacob Hacker and IL Dem Jan Schakowsky in this video, particularly Hacker at around 1:48 and forward (may work best in HQ mode - click the HQ icon):
No matter how much you pretend otherwise, single-payer health care is a stated goal of Obama's, Frank's, Schakowksy's, etc. They even describe a transition process.
Video evidence of them all, in their own words, is a bi*ch.
Only if you have enough money to pay for your own. Otherwise you get a tax subsidy to pay for your insurance for you.
You are correct. If your taxable income is above the poverty level, then the IRS will fine you 7% of your total income and automatically enroll you in the socialist government single-payer plan. If your taxable income is below the poverty level, then the IRS will not fine you, but they will automatically enroll you in the socialist government single-payer plan. Either way, there is no choice. Within 5 years after the law is enacted everyone will be enrolled in the socialist government single-payer plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Anyway, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. I think you'd be in the minority if you had health insurance and didn't use it.
What the hell are you talking about your health insurance has to comply with the socialist plan? They have to comply with standards like, you can't drop people with pre-existing conditions, and things of that nature, but I don't see that as a bad thing, its been a long time coming.
Read the bill. Particularly Section 102 of H.R. 3200. Five years after the socialist government single-payer plan is enacted into law, there will not be any such thing as a "private" insurance carrier. Which makes everything Obama has said about the plan a flat out lie.
You are correct. If your taxable income is above the poverty level, then the IRS will fine you 7% of your total income and automatically enroll you in the socialist government single-payer plan. If your taxable income is below the poverty level, then the IRS will not fine you, but they will automatically enroll you in the socialist government single-payer plan. Either way, there is no choice. Within 5 years after the law is enacted everyone will be enrolled in the socialist government single-payer plan.
Read the bill. Particularly Section 102 of H.R. 3200. Five years after the socialist government single-payer plan is enacted into law, there will not be any such thing as a "private" insurance carrier. Which makes everything Obama has said about the plan a flat out lie.
) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.
All this section is saying is that you have 5 years to get coverage once the law is passed. If, at the end of 5 years you don't have coverage, you may receive a fine of 7% on your tax return that will enroll you in the government supplied plan. The "benefit requirement" they are talking about is that the insurance you buy has to meet the minimum requirements of the government plan. ALL PRIVATELY OWNED INSURANCE WILL MEET THE GOVERNMENT PLAN AND MOST WILL EXCEED IT.
IF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN DAMNED HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE ON THE GOVERNMENT PLAN.
How hard is this to figure out people.
And most people with the income level who would actually receive the fine have enough money to pay for their own. Just like owning a car, you have to have insurance to drive it, they are making insurance mandatory, so the suggestion would be to buy your own, and not rely on the governments, if you can afford it. Hell, you'll probably find some thats cheaper than 7 percent of your income level.
Yesterday during his lovefest in Portsmouth he addressed a concern of many of us. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Many people question how private insurance can compete with government run healthcare. Well look at FedEx and UPS, they're doing great, and it's the post office that's doing really bad. No seriously, the post office is running up huge deficits and the private companies, fedEx and UPS are competing really well."
He actually said this and I'm utterly confused. How is pointing out that a government run entity is hemorrhaging money and operating very inefficiently suppose to reassure us that government healthcare will work? It appears that his very argument should be used by those of us opposed to this.
I just watched the video ... and it is COMPLETELY OBVIOUS what Obama meant.
Obama made a reference that private health care insurers might be worried about having to COMPETE against a public health insurance option.
And he then stated that this is happening right now with UPS and FedEX.
Both of these companies are doing fine, even though they are competing against a public option (the USPS).
The statement was meant purely to show that private insurers will still do well, even if a public insurance option existed.
However, many Republicans in this thread COMPLETELY TWISTED the intention of Obama's statement, to mean something completely different.
There was nothing wrong with what Obama said ... and there is no need for him to correct himself, or even feel badly about his choice for an analogy.
Within 5 years after the law is enacted everyone will be enrolled in the socialist government single-payer plan.
Read the bill. Particularly Section 102 of H.R. 3200. Five years after the socialist government single-payer plan is enacted into law, there will not be any such thing as a "private" insurance carrier. Which makes everything Obama has said about the plan a flat out lie.
I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but. . .
Quote:
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
(b) Grace Period for Current Employment-based Health Plans-
(1) GRACE PERIOD-
(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall establish a grace period whereby, for plan years beginning after the end of the 5-year period beginning with Y1, an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of Y1 must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan under section 101, including the essential benefit package requirement under section 121.
(B) EXCEPTION FOR LIMITED BENEFITS PLANS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the following:
(i) Any coverage described in section 3001(a)(1)(B)(ii)(IV) of division B of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (Public Law 111-5).
(ii) Excepted benefits (as defined in section 733(c) of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974), including coverage under a specified disease or illness policy described in paragraph (3)(A) of such section.
(iii) Such other limited benefits as the Commissioner may specify.
In no case shall an employment-based health plan in which the coverage consists only of one or more of the coverage or benefits described in clauses (i) through (iii) be treated as acceptable coverage under this division
(2) TRANSITIONAL TREATMENT AS ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE- During the grace period specified in paragraph (1)(A), an employment-based health plan that is described in such paragraph shall be treated as acceptable coverage under this division.
(c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-
(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.
Why would employers continue to give you coverage if the government plan undercuts them? These arguments, 'discussions', whatever, are making my head swim. How about giving coverage to the 47 or so million currently without insurance, and let the rest of us alone?
Why would employers continue to give you coverage if the government plan undercuts them? These arguments, 'discussions', whatever, are making my head swim. How about giving coverage to the 47 or so million currently without insurance, and let the rest of us alone?
Thats what they are planning.
Private employers will continue to offer healthcare for a variety of reasons.
1. THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY AN 8% TAX EVERY YEAR THEY DON'T PROVIDE INSURANCE. In most cases, companies pay less than this now for the employee plan.
2. IF COMPANIES WANT TO KEEP THE BEST TALENT, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THE BEST INSURANCE. Its simple, If my company dropped its insurance coverage, I can happily go across the street and get a job with the company that provides good insurance.
Next question (this is like the 8th time I've answered this question, and no one has given me a reasonable argument against what I'm saying)
Next question (this is like the 8th time I've answered this question, and no one has given me a reasonable argument against what I'm saying)
That's because there is no reasonable argument against it. It will remain exactly as it is today; big corporations will still offer health insurance as part of the "benefits package" because it will make them more desirable employers. Same reason they offer competitive salaries, vacations, 401k matching, etc. The better the perks, the better the crop of candidates they'll attract. That concept won't change because the government offers a competitive health insurance plan, any more than companies take away vacation days because the government came up with "federal holidays" that some people get off of work for and others don't.
If you guys would quit lying and making things up, perhaps we could all get around to having a reasonable conversation.
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