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Old 02-17-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,523 posts, read 2,866,273 times
Reputation: 2220

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I used to believe in some magical thing called love.
This explains it all.

 
Old 02-17-2010, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,523 posts, read 2,866,273 times
Reputation: 2220
Wow, I just skipped here to the 90 something(th) page and see that redshadowz is still posting. Seriously, there's got to be better ways to spend your time rather than posting 90 pages of solely you arguing about things and people you hate with other users making occasional interjections. Sadly, even after 90+ pages, I highly doubt you've converted anyone to your ideology. What a cold, negative, and unhappy state of being.

As for people having problems with interracial marriages, I've found it is only this type of negative person who still have problems with it. There's an interracial marriage in my family - and it's the only one of three that has lasted (30+ years)! And to think...those abomination kids they produced even "beat the odds" to earn masters degrees!
 
Old 02-17-2010, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Bayou City
3,085 posts, read 5,242,693 times
Reputation: 2640
The only way to supplant opposition to interracial marriage is to stop treating it as a "phenomenon", for if interracial marriage is conceived in terms of "regular" marriage there would be no reason to lend moral judgments to it.
 
Old 02-22-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,328,408 times
Reputation: 3554
Hey Red, Lets face it you don't like black people so don't marry one.......END OF STORY!
 
Old 02-22-2010, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,667,124 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
Hey Red, Lets face it you don't like black people so don't marry one.......END OF STORY!

And he hates himself. No matter who he marries, the marriage will be interracial. So the brother hasn't a prayer.......
 
Old 02-22-2010, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,215,763 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
Hey Red, Lets face it you don't like black people so don't marry one.......END OF STORY!
Who says I don't like black people? I just don't see the benefits of mixing people together. At least not in my lifetime. And I realize that this is social heresy because of the new world order of diversity thought police demand it to be so. I was merely hoping to bring about some logical thinking by the part of people like yourself. But I think I expect too much, that is, if I believe that people should think outside the box. I remember my 9th grade science teacher had an engineering degree. And he was always pressuring us to "think outside the box". He was always giving us this stupid little questions that were sort of mental tricks. Like. How do you cut a cake into eight equal pieces by making only three cuts?


What I was hoping to explain to you, and I obviously failed. Is that your mind can be led to believe almost anything. So how do you know what is or isn't the truth? Sometimes your beliefs can be backed up with facts, so you know they are true because it is indisputable. But sometimes your beliefs are based on judgements, which are nothing more than opinion.

I was reading an article yesterday about the "real medal" count in the olympics. If you were to take away all medals won by Americans from "judged" events, then we would have less golds than both Norway and Germany. When you are dealing with a judged event, opinions tend to factor in, and biases can manifest themselves in the outcomes. Can anyone say without a doubt, that every judged event in the olympics made the right call?

In life, what is or isn't acceptable is almost always a judgement or opinion, rather than facts. Which is why there tends to be so many different opinions. So how do we know what is or isn't acceptable? How do we have made the right decision? The truth is we don't know anything. We make up rules as we go along. And the rules change over time.

What bothers me the most about the people I come into contact with, is that they are so convinced that their way of thinking is the best way, and that everyone elses is just ignorant and stupid. They fail to understand that even if their way of thinking is the most "mainstream" or "normal" right now, that in 100 years their way of thinking will be thought of as primitive and backwards. Just like the way people thought 100 years ago is generally seen as backwards and unacceptable in our modern world.

So can you really say you are right and they are wrong? Can you really say anyone is right or anyone is wrong? Why should you believe that your line of thinking is "normal", while others is somehow extreme. What is normal anyway?

There are three applicable definitions for normal. There is "common", "accepted", and "naturally occuring".

Lets take the case of interracial marriages for a minute. Are interracial marriages common? Yes. And are interracial marriages "naturally occuring". Yes. Are interracial marriages "accepted". Yes. So interracial marriages would be deemed normal. Correct?

What about rape? Rape is common, and rape is naturally occuring. No one has to be taught to rape. So is rape normal? Racism is common and it is naturally occuring, is racism normal? Most people will say that rape, murder, and racism are not normal. But how can this be true? Because they are deemed unacceptable. At least by our social standards. If we look back 200 years ago, racism was common, naturally occuring, and very acceptable. So was racism "normal" then? And if you were to call it normal, then why isn't it normal now? Is there really a definition of normal? Is the definition of normal absolute? Or is normal just related to place and time?

If normal cannot be defined, then how do we really know if we even know what normal is? How can we walk around on our high-horse, with our condescending attitudes, belittling anyone who disagrees with us, telling them that their ideas are unacceptable and abnormal.


So racism, what is racism? Racism is defined as a belief that your people are superior to other people in one way or another. And racism is most rooted in the human emotions of fear and distrust. We distrust people who are different than us. This fear has been embedded in the human brain since the beginning of time. Humans were always fearful of others, because others tended to want to harm us. Or they looked out for their own best-interests rather than ours. So we tended to try to stay within our own people, as a way of just surviving.

Many will admit that distrust of others is a human condition. They will admit that it came from the constant conquests, the rapes, the theft. People who tended to distrust others were far more likely to survive. So this trait was passed along by the way of survival of the fittest. But these same people that admit that humans tend to distrust others(the foundations of racism), will say that this very common distrust is something that is unacceptable in our modern world. In the same way that murder and rape is common, but is also unacceptable.

So why is something acceptable and why is something unacceptable? Generally things that are deemed to be unacceptable if it produces bad results. This can easily be seen in the case of rape and murder. No matter how "common" they are, their very existence in any capacity is always for the worse. Therefore they are and will forever be, unacceptable, and not normal.

So what of racism? Is racism bad? Does it have a bad effect on society? So even though we admit it is a human condition, should we try to limit it as much as possible?

That's a difficult question to answer. I once believed racism was always bad. But I am no longer so convinced.

Lets talk about religion for a moment. There exists many religions in the world. Would you say that it is good policy to "mix" people of varying religions together? Do you believe a country can remain half muslim and half christian and live in relative harmony? Or do you believe that maybe it is better policy to have an all-muslim country and an all-christian country?

To me, racism when it manifests itself in violence or discrimination is always bad. But I believe that racism itself can be a good policy to actually promote the well-being of humanity. It promotes actual diversity, by making sure cultures are preserved across the world. It promotes community by limiting divisions. The very presence of interracial marriages is very harmful to the fabric of society. At least until the point that interracial marriages have become so common that they can no longer really be called interracial anymore.

"The way I see it, the fact of the Jews' racial peculiarity will necessarily influence their social relations with non-Jews. The conclusions which—in my opinion—the Jews should draw is to become more aware of their peculiarity in their social way of life and to recognize their own cultural contributions. First of all, they would have to show a certain noble reservedness and not be so eager to mix socially—of which others want little or nothing. On the other hand, anti-Semitism in Germany also has consequences that, from a Jewish point of view, should be welcomed. I believe German Jewry owes its continued existence to anti-Semitism." - Albert Einstein

What he is saying is, if the Germans had been more hospitable towards the jews, the jews would have become assimilated, and they wouldn't have been their own people, their own religion, or their own culture. They just would have been Germans, just like everyone else. Which would have destroyed that diversity.

I just don't see the benefits of diversity in this country. So I cannot support any policy that encourages or perpetuates such a failed concept. And although I don't want to insist that I am right and everyone else is wrong. I merely want you to actually weigh the good with the bad of diversity and come to your own conclusions. Stop just listening to everyone else.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-22-2010 at 08:39 PM..
 
Old 02-22-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,215,763 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
And he hates himself. No matter who he marries, the marriage will be interracial. So the brother hasn't a prayer.......

I don't hate myself, there is just a lot about myself that I wish I could change. And if certain policies had been in effect when my mother or my mothers mothers mother was young, then I would have been born to different circumstances, and in my opinion, better circumstances.

I don't really resent the fact that I am part Native-American. But I don't necessarily see it as a positive either. I would have rathered been born full native-American than to just be a part. I feel awkward going into the indian clinics, because I appear so light in color and they have what I would call "real indians" there. The doctors are real indians, you go to the Casino's here in Oklahoma and you see real indians. You go to many of the larger cities near the reservations, and you see real indians. I feel kind of out-of-place.

I would much rather Oklahoma had just stayed for the indians. Or really a much larger chunk of America had stayed for the indians. But either way, I see no point in having more than one group of people living in the same territory. It doesn't produce good results.
 
Old 02-22-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,195 posts, read 19,232,404 times
Reputation: 14919
Quote:
Originally Posted by West of Encino View Post
It seems like Americans, particularly white Americans, strongly oppose IRR.

Why do people oppose race mixing?
Generally people who worry about what is going on in someone else's bedroom don't have enough going on in their own.

In other words, it ain't nobody's business but the ones in the relationship.
 
Old 02-22-2010, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Hades
2,126 posts, read 2,383,020 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I don't really resent the fact that I am part Native-American. But I don't necessarily see it as a positive either. I would have rathered been born full native-American than to just be a part. I feel awkward going into the indian clinics, because I appear so light in color and they have what I would call "real indians" there. The doctors are real indians, you go to the Casino's here in Oklahoma and you see real indians. You go to many of the larger cities near the reservations, and you see real indians. I feel kind of out-of-place.

I would much rather Oklahoma had just stayed for the indians. Or really a much larger chunk of America had stayed for the indians. But either way, I see no point in having more than one group of people living in the same territory. It doesn't produce good results.
Red- I read and posted quite a bit on this thread, or one like it. I will admit that I wondered when I read some of your posts whether you were trying to be inflammatory on purpose. I think when anyone discusses people "not mixing" in 21st century USA (and anywhere) it tends to raise eyebrows, among folks from all backgrounds.

That said, I actually do find what you what you write here far more relevant than all the other explanations and graphs you have been posting to explore the issue.

Have you ever been to a reservation elsewhere in the country, or any other largely "indian" dominated setting? It could really give a different edge to your examination on the issue. I'm not "native" (that I know of) but I have taken part in some conferences and seminars that were dominated by natives from all over the country. And in terms of this hue tone thing (which can be a factor for identity issues with "hybrids"), people were all over the spectrum. Some people may question why people give a hoot about their "hue" or the way they look or why people care, try getting asked pretty much everywhere you go "What are you" and then maybe get back to me. I get questioned about my heritage no matter where I am.

I really wonder if your thought process on this whole issue would not start to shift if you spent some time in a setting or event with "natives" from all over the continent.

In terms of seeing no point of having "more than one group of people living in the same territory" and it not producing good results- I don't agree. Not at all. But I don't feel like debating about it. I think that it's been worn to the bone.
 
Old 02-22-2010, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,215,763 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadScribe View Post
Red- I read and posted quite a bit on this thread, or one like it. I will admit that I wondered when I read some of your posts whether you were trying to be inflammatory on purpose. I think when anyone discusses people "not mixing" in 21st century USA (and anywhere) it tends to raise eyebrows, among folks from all backgrounds.

That said, I actually do find what you what you write here far more relevant than all the other explanations and graphs you have been posting to explore the issue.

Have you ever been to a reservation elsewhere in the country, or any other largely "indian" dominated setting? It could really give a different edge to your examination on the issue. I'm not "native" (that I know of) but I have taken part in some conferences and seminars that were dominated by natives from all over the country. And in terms of this hue tone thing (which can be a factor for identity issues with "hybrids"), people were all over the spectrum. Some people may question why people give a hoot about their "hue" or the way they look or why people care, try getting asked pretty much everywhere you go "What are you" and then maybe get back to me. I get questioned about my heritage no matter where I am.

I really wonder if your thought process on this whole issue would not start to shift if you spent some time in a setting or event with "natives" from all over the continent.

In terms of seeing no point of having "more than one group of people living in the same territory" and it not producing good results- I don't agree. Not at all. But I don't feel like debating about it. I think that it's been worn to the bone.
If you want to learn about what a travesty indians have had to put up with. Don't even look through history, everyone knows what happened to them in the past. Look at recent times. Look at the crime victimhood rates of native-american women.

Native American Women and Violence

"According to the Department of Justice, 70% or more of violence experienced by Native American women is committed by persons not of the same race."

Native-Americans are the only group of people in this country that are victimized more by other races than their own. Why would they possibly be better off through forced contact with these other races that treat them so poorly? Why are they better off through the destruction of their culture through mixing?
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