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This topic is here to get us use to the idea.
They will keep chipping away until enough say "Oh yeah!"
Then they will go a little further until it is the "right" thing to do.
They are stripping you of your soul and you don't even know it.
Say goodbye to your grandmother,
like you have said goodbye to everything else that made this world beautiful.
Oh, they ALWAYS have their reasons.
Have you ever noticed though, after they get their way?
Things are not quite as beautiful, have you noticed?
I can't agree with you in that before Palin did her job on the Congress there were certainly provisions for death panels. Now if insurance companies have those death panels, what is to stop the DC people from doing the very same thing once they manage to get single payer insurance?
I have to disagree with you. Reimbursing physicians for end-of-life counseling is not the same as a death panel. The first thing medical, nursing, and admissions staff do once a patient is admitted is to see if there are any orders for DNR (with orders to either utilize all heroic measures, some, or none) and who, if anyone, the patient has appointed to make decisions for them should they become incapacitated.
In the absence of those orders and provisions, hospitals do their best to care for patients with grave prognoses...often with well-meaning family members who insist on painful or unnecessary interventions that ultimately do not prolong the patient's life nor diminish their suffering.
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I wonder how many doctors will manage to get themselves in a world of hurt once they violate the orders of the DC appointed panels about care and who can have it.
I'm afraid that some already do, by ignoring mandates from private insurance companies and sometimes Medicare in order to care for their patients, regardless of cost.
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I think that the worst thing that we could come up with right now would be single payer with people like Zeke Emanuel in the White House advising about medicine.
You say that Obama doesn't want those death panels but he seems to appoint people who believe that way and that tells me something about him and what he does want.
I remember the debate(s) about Mr. Emanuel, and it is not true that he wants all elderly patients to go without care. There is a dire misunderstanding of his articles' intent.
Medical ethics is a very emotional subject regardless of which side you're on, patient or medical staff. Keeping a dying patient indefinitely on life support makes no more sense than vaccinating an end-stage-diseased patient against influenza during the last weeks of their life.
In a nutshell, those were some of the things Mr. Emanuel discussed in one of his papers.
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I have no doubt that if we had had the form of medical care that the left has tried to push off on us in 2005 when I had my heart attack and resulting emergency 6 bypass surgery there would have been someone determining who got it first. While I was lying in the bed in a recovery room an old man who had had bypass surgery across the hall moved out and before the morning was over a little girl of about 9 wheeled her dad, in a wheel chair, into the same room. Now we had a man of about 40 in that room getting shaved the same as I did 5 days before. He had three small children, and according to one of my nurses, he had chest pains that sounded like heart problem. He got his by pass surgery the next morning. My problem is would he have gone first instead of me in the system the advisors of Obama, like Zeke, want us to have? I would say that he should have because my youngest child was 20 at the time and that young man had three much younger than that.
There are several factors that determine who arrives in the OR first, and that is ultimately up to the medical staff's assessment of each patient's condition...and insurance approval.
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There is no doubt in my mind that once we get social medicine we will see something very akin to death panels and they will determine who gets what. I think that my experience with how Medicare works makes it very obvious that appointed bureaucrats will not work the way medical people do. Things will take a drastic change once we get to the point where government is in control of medicine.
Roy, you already have social medicine. Medicare. Not only did you contribute to your coverage, the rest of America did as well.
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BTW, I started lifting weights about 10 months after the surgery and am still doing that. I don't know how many more years I will be around but the excellent care that I got saved my life, without doubt. My heart arteries were barely getting any blood since three of them were about 85% plugged and three more like 95%. My heart attack was so mild that I felt no real pain but I didn't wait to get to the hospital although there was no real pain and if I hadn't gone I would have expired that night. In fact the EMT that rode with me in the ambulance thought that I did leave for a while from the blood pressure. I thought I was taking a little nap but she said it appeared it might be a long one for a time. Damn, those people at that hospital were good and I love every one of them, especially that first day ICU nurse.
I'm very glad to hear that you've been so pro-active in your health. I'm also happy to hear that you received what sounds like very excellent care.
All Americans deserve that level of quality and attention.
It's something that's rather tricky to discuss. Especially because many of today's elderly (say roughly those who are 85+) are members of the greatest generation. To openly say that we should cut benefits for the elderly is frequently seen as blasphemous. Do we just strip them of their benefits and leave them to fend for themselves? I don't know.
However, I will say that I mostly agree with you. Honestly, just seeing many of those are who 75+ makes me think if people were even intended to live this long. Yes, it's great that society has progressed such that the average life-expectancy is far higher than it was 100, or even 50 years ago. Obviously though, this comes with the added cost that past a certain age, many people simply become a burden on society. And the more that medicine and health practices advance, the longer people will continue to live...and the more it will cost to keep them propped up, especially as our population continues to grow. Like many social programs, it's simply unsustainable in the long run.
So, there's my unprofessional, blasphemous opinion.
That's a good analysis, but it would be better if you viewed that in context of the US 14th Amendment, which requires equal treatment under the law.
I notice everyone is quick to scream, "Europeans have health care" but no one mentions that European countries have nothing like the 14th Amendment.
Whether you read it in the most conservative or most liberal light, you can't spend $1 Million to save a person and then tell another they're being cut off at $10,000 because they're too old, or won't live long enough, or you spend all your time in a wheel-chair or bed-ridden so what difference does it make if you get a hip replacement or not, or whatever.
People don't seem to want to address the ethical or legal rammifications of "national health care" in the US.
They're already exist...Blue Cross, Aetna, United, etc...
BUT you can still pick the one you want to take care of your panel and with the Obama method you get what the people in DC select for you. I guess this doesn't make sense but being able to select your panel is still better as far as I am concerned.
On Fox News, Glenn Beck runs it. You should watch it sometime... most of the viewers already act like zombies. And while it is a slow process, he is a genius who makes it look comfortable talking about things the viewers want to hear.
Keerist, I watch Glenn Beck every day and again on Sunday every week of the year and you are telling me what he says!!! Keep it up because I am sure you saw 10 minutes of him once.
BUT you can still pick the one you want to take care of your panel and with the Obama method you get what the people in DC select for you. I guess this doesn't make sense but being able to select your panel is still better as far as I am concerned.
Death Panel... would you like to have vanilla flavored or strawberry?
So, how's been your experience with Obama death panel? You should know... you've been using socialized medicine for your own health for a while now.
Why yes, I do have Medicare and it is very nice to get things like sonograms without having to pay out of pocket, but I was referring to the fact that since I am so old (77) many would think that I shouldn't be a drag on society.
I don't necessarily have a problem taking care of old people, or anyone else for that matter.
However, I'm a stickler for personal responsibility.
When you get old, the heart gives out, I understand that, and I don't have a problem forking over my hard earned tax dollars to spring for a pace-maker and pay for the surgery to install it.
People born with congenitive heart defects, okay, I'll dole out some of my hard earned tax dollars to give that person a chance at life.
But, some porker who's 150 pounds overweight from sitting on the couch eating and drinking foreign imported light oil, well, I'll pony up a buck or two for an Exact-O knife so they can do their own open-heart surgery.
But, some porker who's 150 pounds overweight from sitting on the couch eating and drinking foreign imported light oil, well, I'll pony up a buck or two for an Exact-O knife so they can do their own open-heart surgery.
Nice generalization.
What about the skinny patient that eats right and excercises, yet has a cholesterol level in the 300s and blood pressure that's off the chart thanks to strong family history of same?
You can't spot them as well, so I'm afraid you'll be hard-pressed to single them out on the basis of appearance.
In socialism, people pay for a safety net, usually in the form of taxes. And when it comes to health care, the older population (always high risk) has to be supported by the healthy to help compensate for the costs. And with the health care costs where they're right now, do you seriously believe everybody that is a part of medicare has paid enough so that they've paid for their care for the rest of the life? Nope. We all contribute to ensure they get covered and I'm glad we can. "Free market" would eat these very same elders alive.
The original poster was complaining about someone collecting a $3000 per month pension along with his Social Security check. If you collected his money all those years for Social Security taxes it only seems fair he should be eligible to draw it at the appropriate time.
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I'm also happy to hear that you received what sounds like very excellent care.
