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Correction: YOU can't. We are all animals.
But you're right that most people don't seem to understand them. If they did there would be no animal abuse but I know that I can understand my dogs just fine so I can't sit there and say that a person won't.
Yes, we are all animals. This doesn't mean one animal species can understand another. Most animals don't have emotions in the true sense of the word. They can have feelings that drive their actions, but these aren't necessarily emotions. Empathy for animals is limited. We are trying to assign human feelings to non-human animals, but the reality is they don't have these emotions most of the time. Our concern for animal welfare comes from understanding what it would be like if the abuse was done to us, not from being able to step into their shoes.
Yes, we are all animals. This doesn't mean one animal species can understand another. Most animals don't have emotions in the true sense of the word. They can have feelings that drive their actions, but these aren't necessarily emotions. Empathy for animals is limited. We are trying to assign human feelings to non-human animals, but the reality is they don't have these emotions most of the time. Our concern for animal welfare comes from understanding what it would be like if the abuse was done to us, not from being able to step into their shoes.
I'm glad you said most of the time because I can assure you my dogs have had human feelings.
What's the difference between feelings and emotions? They are kind of the same thing.
Has anyone else noticed this? Sometimes (infrequently) when I happen to be talking to someone they tend to bring up having Asperger syndrome. They may say this is the reason for their impaired social interaction - including hostility. Is hostility a symptom of AS?
I know there are many with this disorder who do not share this problem. I wonder if it being used as an excuse for displaying this behavior. Yes, it's difficult to overcome the social difficulties from this disorder, but if they are constantly telling themselves it's alright because they have AS and not try to improve it, they may see their behavior as acceptable. Others are often unwilling to point out the behavior because they know they have the disorder and fear offending them.
I even see this in people who display no symptoms. Since AS tends to be overdiagnosed, more people have antisocial behavior because they think it's excusable.
I didn't read all of the posts, so I apologize if this is a repeat, but I just have to weigh in.
According to a diagnosis I received, I have Autism Spectrum Disorder (also known as Asperger's), and to complicate matters further, I'm female. (For those of you who don't know, women live in a society comprised of unspoken rules and nonverbal cues and have behavior expectations placed on them that are apparently much higher than those placed on men.)
From what I understand, having Asperger's is like being a child who never stops asking "why?" or saying / doing inappropriate things. Your mind is painfully inquisitive. When you focus on a subject of interest, you focus with great intensity. You also have trouble seeing the world from other's perspective, so you often say and do things that get you in trouble. For instance, your five-year-old brain thinks, "well, I know the meaning of this word, so I'll share it with Sarah; she'll probably be as excited as me to hear its meaning." Of course, Sarah doesn't find it interesting that you know the meaning of "Schizophrenia" and actually thinks your obsession with mental disorders, coupled with your indifference to social cues, is really creepy, so she decides to terminate your friendship, and either intentionally or unintentionally, spreads a rumor about you that makes the other children wary of you. They often make you the target of rumors, gossip, and pranks. (in elementary school, someone broke a stink bomb, and the kids complained that it was me. This wasn't an isolated incident. I was often the target of vicious pranks and cruel jokes.) The teachers don't know how to help you with social skills (at least they didn't when I was going to school; it wasn't even considered a disorder), so like a child failing in reading or math, you continue to fall further and further behind in the social arena until you feel like you have no hope of catching up (for me, it got so bad, I was eventually afraid to talk to my teachers).
Every unspoken convention eludes you, and even adults find you strange. Social interaction becomes a risky guessing game; it's really easy to say and do the wrong things without meaning to. (For example, you say something sarcastically when you are being serious.) Some mature people may learn your quirks and become your advocates once they figure you out, but others, adults included, think you need to be punished out of your peculiarities, so they withhold the things from you that make you human--self esteem and motivation--hoping that you will "get with the program." They allow, or even encourage--other children to abuse you and taunt you and even partake in it themselves to an extent that makes you feel worthless. Of course, you want desperately to please other people, but you don't know how and no one will teach you. Social interaction gets more and more convoluted. You are expected to know more and more rules and are actually punished for not knowing so are discouraged from learning. You've felt the sting of pain and ridicule enough to know that social interactions aren't really worth the risk, so you withdraw. (I even withdrew from my own parents.) You may take up a life in comic books or video games; you may absorb yourself in a new creative hobby, or someone might push you to the edge, and you might use your good mind to commit bad deeds.
Really, I think you eventually learn the conventions, but then you are left with overwhelming social anxiety. Your only memories of socialization are ones of pain, humiliation, and ridicule. You see people in general as evil beings who enjoy torture and doing bad things to those who don't fit in. When you think of socializing, you think of failure. This keeps you from doing the most mundane of tasks, like asking for help with homework, approaching the professor about a point you didn't understand, attending the study group for the final exam, etc.
Experiences may vary, though, I've heard that people who start going to counseling early have better prospects. I started going to counseling when I got to college, and it was the first time I heard a level-headed woman ever say good things to me and not be shocked or appalled at my peculiarities. I did a lot of healing in college, and now I have a better perspective of what that confusing social game really was. I still dread certain social interactions, though, and I marvel at how people can be so cruel.
I would advise teens who have ASD and are not getting help at the schools they attend to drop out. The constant abuse isn't worth it. You have a good mind, and the real world is, thankfully, a bit more understanding.
I didn't read all of the posts, so I apologize if this is a repeat, but I just have to weigh in.
According to a diagnosis I received, I have Autism Spectrum Disorder (also known as Asperger's), and to complicate matters further, I'm female. (For those of you who don't know, women live in a society comprised of unspoken rules and nonverbal cues and have behavior expectations placed on them that are apparently much higher than those placed on men.)
From what I understand, having Asperger's is like being a child who never stops asking "why?" or saying / doing inappropriate things. Your mind is painfully inquisitive. When you focus on a subject of interest, you focus with great intensity. You also have trouble seeing the world from other's perspective, so you often say and do things that get you in trouble. For instance, your five-year-old brain thinks, "well, I know the meaning of this word, so I'll share it with Sarah; she'll probably be as excited as me to hear its meaning." Of course, Sarah doesn't find it interesting that you know the meaning of "Schizophrenia" and actually thinks your obsession with mental disorders, coupled with your indifference to social cues, is really creepy, so she decides to terminate your friendship, and either intentionally or unintentionally, spreads a rumor about you that makes the other children wary of you. They often make you the target of rumors, gossip, and pranks. (in elementary school, someone broke a stink bomb, and the kids complained that it was me. This wasn't an isolated incident. I was often the target of vicious pranks and cruel jokes.) The teachers don't know how to help you with social skills (at least they didn't when I was going to school; it wasn't even considered a disorder), so like a child failing in reading or math, you continue to fall further and further behind in the social arena until you feel like you have no hope of catching up (for me, it got so bad, I was eventually afraid to talk to my teachers).
Every unspoken convention eludes you, and even adults find you strange. Social interaction becomes a risky guessing game; it's really easy to say and do the wrong things without meaning to. (For example, you say something sarcastically when you are being serious.) Some mature people may learn your quirks and become your advocates once they figure you out, but others, adults included, think you need to be punished out of your peculiarities, so they withhold the things from you that make you human--self esteem and motivation--hoping that you will "get with the program." They allow, or even encourage--other children to abuse you and taunt you and even partake in it themselves to an extent that makes you feel worthless. Of course, you want desperately to please other people, but you don't know how and no one will teach you. Social interaction gets more and more convoluted. You are expected to know more and more rules and are actually punished for not knowing so are discouraged from learning. You've felt the sting of pain and ridicule enough to know that social interactions aren't really worth the risk, so you withdraw. (I even withdrew from my own parents.) You may take up a life in comic books or video games; you may absorb yourself in a new creative hobby, or someone might push you to the edge, and you might use your good mind to commit bad deeds.
Really, I think you eventually learn the conventions, but then you are left with overwhelming social anxiety. Your only memories of socialization are ones of pain, humiliation, and ridicule. You see people in general as evil beings who enjoy torture and doing bad things to those who don't fit in. When you think of socializing, you think of failure. This keeps you from doing the most mundane of tasks, like asking for help with homework, approaching the professor about a point you didn't understand, attending the study group for the final exam, etc.
Experiences may vary, though, I've heard that people who start going to counseling early have better prospects. I started going to counseling when I got to college, and it was the first time I heard a level-headed woman ever say good things to me and not be shocked or appalled at my peculiarities. I did a lot of healing in college, and now I have a better perspective of what that confusing social game really was. I still dread certain social interactions, though, and I marvel at how people can be so cruel.
I would advise teens who have ASD and are not getting help at the schools they attend to drop out. The constant abuse isn't worth it. You have a good mind, and the real world is, thankfully, a bit more understanding.
Yeah as a child I always asked why and I still ask why. Like you say when something is of interest you can easily become obsessed with it. I can actually read people rather well at least IRL (it can be a little harder in written form. I'm not sure why I'm backwards like that) but I have a hard time getting other people to read me. Unlike many Aspies, I do not wish to please other people but I do wish to do right by those I care about.
Also you don't see the point in socializing with people in general because a lot of them are just horrid. I figure that a lot of them don't understand me and most often I am right. As a loner it doesn't really bother me that much in general but it kinda does when I think about how much fun I used to have and it really does bother me when I need help. Years ago I used to have a few people that I really thought I was extremely connected with but they changed. Everyone changes around me and I stay the same. The thing that bothers me the most is when it's people that I am supposed to connect with..even in a group that was supposed to fit me I'm just there. I stay relevant to the topic and yet they're just talking mostly to themselves as if I don't exist. The worst part is these were internet friends which I used to be able to enjoy talking to. I enjoy talking online still but I do so only as an observer.
Last edited by Nickchick; 03-14-2015 at 07:03 PM..
Has anyone else noticed this? Sometimes (infrequently) when I happen to be talking to someone they tend to bring up having Asperger syndrome. They may say this is the reason for their impaired social interaction - including hostility. Is hostility a symptom of AS?
I know there are many with this disorder who do not share this problem. I wonder if it being used as an excuse for displaying this behavior. Yes, it's difficult to overcome the social difficulties from this disorder, but if they are constantly telling themselves it's alright because they have AS and not try to improve it, they may see their behavior as acceptable. Others are often unwilling to point out the behavior because they know they have the disorder and fear offending them.
I even see this in people who display no symptoms. Since AS tends to be overdiagnosed, more people have antisocial behavior because they think it's excusable.
Is there something wrong with antisocial behavior?
"more people have antisocial behavior because they think it's excusable"
Is there something wrong with antisocial behavior?
"more people have antisocial behavior because they think it's excusable"
True antisocial behavior--using people emotionally for destructive purposes--is bad, but not many Aspies are like that. Most of our "antisocial" tendencies rise from a misunderstanding of situations.
Correction: YOU can't. We are all animals.
But you're right that most people don't seem to understand them. If they did there would be no animal abuse but I know that I can understand my dogs just fine so I can't sit there and say that a person won't.
If you read up on autism, it's a combined disorder. Depression, sleep problems, OCD etc. they can all be part of autism. A lot of people have simple depression or OCD tendencies so of course it has no awareness.
You're right about adults. Kids don't generally have responsibilities so it's not as bad for them. As you get older, you're expected to do more and that can be hard if you have mental problems. They're not saying that it doesn't matter. Do you think it just goes away? If you have autism, you still have it when you're an adult. In fact it can be more apparent.
Haha you expect drug companies to stop pill pushing? They're not going to because it's how they make their money. Even if it makes someone worse, they don't care as long as they are making money.
Adults with autism need to be addressed. You aren't a lost cause if you grow up with ASD, but people are making it feel that way with all of this emphasis on children. Support for adults should be more readily available. I wonder how I would have fared had I been diagnosed as a kid. I wonder how different it would have been for me had my teachers known how delicate I was socially.
Adults with autism need to be addressed. You aren't a lost cause if you grow up with ASD, but people are making it feel that way with all of this emphasis on children. Support for adults should be more readily available. I wonder how I would have fared had I been diagnosed as a kid. I wonder how different it would have been for me had my teachers known how delicate I was socially.
I often wonder the same. The therapy I was in must have been unsuccessful because they assumed I was normal so in turn my mom was left with the burden. It's crazy that they never saw it looking back. Most of my grades were Cs that I can recall and I am someone who worked hard in school and loved to learn. Only thing I figure is I was always so quiet so they had no way of knowing what was inside my head.
Speaking as someone with Aspergers, yes we can feel hostile at times because people don't understand us, and blame us for
not being good at reading social cues. My family hit and belittled me my whole childhood because I wasn't good at reading social cues.
The idea Aspergers are sociopaths is a complete myth. I can't speak for all people with Aspergers but I get very upset if I make somebody uncomfortable or upset or seem rude. I always do my best to make people feel comfortable and appreciated, but when you're blind to body language sometimes it's very difficult not to appear rude.
People who say Aspies lack empathy are plain wrong, most people with Aspergers love animals and have a stronger sense of morality than the average "NT". We just don't always express the appropriate and socially expected feelings. We're not as good at faking things as the average person, so we can seem like jerks sometimes.
Well I am very observant and good at reading social cues, and body language, and whatever. I love animals, ( except dogs and cats ) and I can understand animals also. As for appearing indifferent towards people, that is because something else much more important is on my mind. As for faking things, I guess that is because people with Asperger's aren't fake!
Last edited by In_Correct; 03-14-2015 at 09:13 PM..
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and cats 
