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The news on the J&J one is interesting. A small number of clot issues out of all the doses given....but apparently all the people who reacted to it with clots were women.
Not trying to speculate too much, but wonder if its potentially related to BC.
But you are right, not going to help with vaccine hesitancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal
you'd think they could do a decent analysis of "why" quickly with just 6 cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVoR
It certainly isn't a big sample size...to be sure.
The clots occurred in veins that drain blood from the brain and occurred together with low platelets, the fragments in blood that normally form clots. All six cases were in women between the ages of 18 and 48. One person died, and all of the cases remain under investigation.
for the patient: "Are you on BC? What type? Where are you in your cycle?"
for the Doctors: "Are these the 'same' type of clots caused by BC?"
it's odd. there's a minimum 3 of 10,000 chance of clots because of BC - that's 0.03%
if half the 6.8MM J&J were given to women, and more than 6 days ago, and we assume a semi-random 70% of those were 18-49, and that these women used BC pills at the 14% national level .... that's 6 of 333K, or 0.002%. Which is 1/15th the rate of BC blood clots.
Which could be interpreted as the vaccine actually REDUCES blood clotting, couldn't it?
for the patient: "Are you on BC? What type? Where are you in your cycle?"
for the Doctors: "Are these the 'same' type of clots caused by BC?"
it's odd. there's a minimum 3 of 10,000 chance of clots because of BC - that's 0.03%
if half the 6.8MM J&J were given to women, and more than 6 days ago, and we assume a semi-random 70% of those were 18-49, and that these women used BC pills at the 14% national level .... that's 6 of 333K, or 0.002%. Which is 1/15th the rate of BC blood clots.
Which could be interpreted as the vaccine actually REDUCES blood clotting, couldn't it?
I think the question (on your numbers above) would be "IF this is tied to BC, would these six women have experienced clots without the vaccine" while realizing the incidence is lower in your hypothetical population.
i.e. Yes Blood clots are a possible side effect of certain types of BC. But did the addition of the vaccine to their system cause clots when they hadn't experienced them prior to vaccination.
Laurie Garrett on twitter (who has been a great follow through the last year) is on this line of thought as well. Something about Adenovirus vectors (stretching my arm chair knowledge here) and Estrogen.
and, since I'm not a woman, I don't know if they have the highest incidence of clots when they first start taking BC. That would be important it seems though.
Got my 2nd Moderna shot 4 hrs ago. Felt nothing. I'm hoping for mild side effects or better yet, none at all. They told me 12 to 24 hrs is when side effects usually kick in.
An alert to providers and women - "If you're on BC and scheduled to get J&J, we're going to pause"
But ... why stop giving J&J to men for sure, and perhaps women NOT on BC (assuming all 6 were on BC)?
Why allow that media I'm so fond of to scare the bejeebus out of people who don't need to be scared?
I get the impression that this pause won’t be long in place given the connections they seem to be finding with the situation.
Not that I say this to impune the women who had AE with this vaccine; a couple of them seriously so, including death, but back of napkin math tells me the AE in this case is 6 in 6.9M doses. Literally 1 in a million. We’re currently around 1 in 600 Americans have died from COVID.
I’m good with the pause to figure out what the situation is. Practice of medicine and all that. But I’m hopeful they can get this J&J train going again. Hesitancy is our clock
Got my 2nd Moderna shot 4 hrs ago. Felt nothing. I'm hoping for mild side effects or better yet, none at all. They told me 12 to 24 hrs is when side effects usually kick in.
Happy to report at 20 hrs post shot just a raised area on my left arm & some light soreness, but not bad. No other side effects thus far. Shot itself was painless.
Happy to report at 20 hrs post shot just a raised area on my left arm & some light soreness, but not bad. No other side effects thus far. Shot itself was painless.
Good to hear. Everyone I know who has felt crappy after shot 2 got the Moderna vaccine.
Happy other than the normal dead arm you're seeing none of other side effects.
Funny thing - my arm is less sore this time around. It's not dead, I have no loss of range of movement, and if it wasn't for the silver dollar sized raised area that feels warm to the touch, I'd never know I had a vaccine. Exactly like when I got the Shingles 2-shot vaccine a few years ago.
Older peeps over age 50 tend to have less reaction, I've heard.
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to scare the bejeebus out of people who don't need to be scared?
Shot itself was painless.
