Do you think that Master/Slave relationships are ok? (Christian, pregnant, casual)

[artemis agrotera]

Originally Posted by Wingsy

I think that people have a set image in their head of what these relationships are like, so let me describe a few aspects of my relationship with my dominant partner and a bit about who he is...

He's one of the finest men I've ever met. In the twelve years we've been together, life has seen fit to throw some really awful speed bumps in our path. Deaths of close family, illness, a hefty bout of unemployment and the attendant financial hardships... and through it all, he has stood beside me like a rock, as I have him. I can talk to him about anything, and no matter what problems arise, he works with me to find solutions. He has helped oversee my health care to ensure I got the best treatment possible. He is constantly finding small ways to add to my happiness... tracking down things that will interest me, finding music I'd enjoy, giving me books he knows I'll devour... all those same sort of things you look for in your relationship, they exist in ours as well.

We simply have some added elements... we're not into quite the same things the OP is... I'm not chasing around like a puppy on a leash. I do have a collar, but you wouldn't recognize it as such. You'd see a nice small medallion on a chain, but as my wedding ring is symbolic of my marriage, my collar is symbolic of my submission.

I serve him his meals, I bring him a drink, I often sit at his feet. It makes me feel cherished to sit there with my head on his knee as he plays idly with my hair, combing his fingers through it. Sometimes I kneel in front of him, and he caresses my neck or cups my cheek... and the look he gives me as he's doing this makes my heart melt and my stomach flutter.

I do little service projects for him... tracking down first editions of Heinlein, making frames for his many art prints, whatever he needs. And it makes me feel incredible when he kisses my forehead and tells me I've done a good job for him.

He's also the first one to tell me to sit my butt down and take it easy when he thinks I'm overdoing anything. He is furiously and fiercely protective of me. He doesn't allow me to keep toxic people in my life. He wants my life to be as peaceful and happy as it can be. I have a giving nature... people try and take advantage of that... he makes sure that doesn't happen, that I don't let my good intentions harm me, drain me, suck me dry. I know how to say "no" because he insists that I be able to do so. How many of us know multiple women who end up harried and harassed because they just don't know how to say "no" to the people in their lives? All of us, I'd bet.

He motivates me... I quit smoking because he wanted it. No withdrawals, no back sliding. I'd smoked since I was 14. I'm able to stick to a healthy diet because it's what he wants for me... not because he's interested in me being stick thin (I'm definitely not) but because my overall health issues are drastically improved when I am at a healthy weight and making good food choices.

These relationships are supposed to be mutually fulfilling. If they're not, people can call them whatever they want but they are not Master/slave relationships. Unfortunately, too often, people latch on to the examples where someone has taken the title without the responsibility, and believe that is representative of the whole.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

whilst you do explain it in a much more understanding manner - and there are some aspects of that which I get,meals (serving, no... I won't use that word) & wanting to please your SO.

Why is the collar not displayed like a collar?

Originally Posted by Wingsy

Oh HECK no!!! And anyone who tries quickly ends up with my foot in places they'd rather it not be.

I am his slave. To everyone else I am an equal or a peer. He is the only person in my life who is granted authority over me like this, who is entitled to my servitude, who is able to exert control. Every other relationship I have, including my relationship with my beloved hubby, is as egalitarian as your own.

sorry that word just doesn't sit right with me.

To think people have fought and continue to fight NOT to be slaves, and that others enjoy wearing collars and being that submissive to another person ....

I try to always understand the other point of view, and most times even though I don't agree I can understand where that other person is coming from. However, I still just can't grasp the attractivness of calling someone Master, nor wearing a collar, or having a partner who enables submissivness. ... nor just about any part of it!

[starsfalling]

What about if you have children? Will the girls think that they should serve a man in the same type of relationship? How will they tell the difference between what you say is a loving relationship and an abusive relationship? If they believe it is ok for a man to punish them and rule them, what will keep them from winding up in a very bad situation?

[fallingwater]

Everyone has a freak flag, some have larger flags than others. I personally would not want this sort of relationship. I guess my thoughts are when play becomes reality then this could damage the psyche in the long run. When one person becomes so dependent on another they can longer function on their own.

I actually met a couple that has this sort of relationship and to see it in person really really bothered me and I will tell you why. I will start off with the scenario first.

I met this couple by chance because they are my Dad's neighbors. I was visiting him a couple of years ago. His house is on the corner and a side street runs along the side of his house. The house behind him is the first house on that side street, so my Dad's backyard faces the neighbors backyard. My dad lives in his garage basically tinkering on something all day. So while visiting him we were standing in the garage. I then saw a woman come out of the house behind him wearing a very thin and very short nightgown. The woman had to have been about 300 lbs. So the tiny nightie was already pretty offensive. I also noticed she had a very large black choker type necklace around her neck. Then the guy came out. My dad waved to them and they came over. When the woman got closer I realized the necklace was actually a black leather dog collar with silver studs on it. Her nightgown was so thin you could see everything.

The guy was super creepy and scary looking. He looked like a skin head and something about him seemed evil. The woman did not say a word and she kept looking at her guy. Almost a look of admiration and fear. He finally barked at her to go back in the house and gave her a shove. I was speechless. I watched her walk back to the house and then I saw two children come out around the ages of 6 and 8 yrs of age. They called her mom.

I ignored the guy and had a hard time looking him in the eye because he was really scary. He only stayed a minute and I looked at my dad shocked. My dad said they were odd balls. My dad is pretty naive and I explained to him what their relationship was. My dad got beet red and said no way, they are just odd. I got pretty upset because of the kids in the house. I told my dad I wanted to call CPS. He got pissed at me and said we didnt know what was going on over there. Whatever. Later that day I called my sister and she said she saw the same thing a few days before. We agreed to call CPS. I guess the woman was a single mother, met this guy, he moved in and well they started this master/slave deal. My sister called CPS and the woman on the other end of the phone accused my sister of making up this story. It finally took my sister 3 phones before they agreed to send someone out. I dont know if they ever did. It seemed very unbelievable to CPS.

So I dont really care what people do but when children get involved I got a serious problem with it.

[Wingsy]

Originally Posted by Ozgal

Why is the collar not displayed like a collar?

Why does it need to be? There's a couple I'm friends with who have been married for 31 years. They both wear a bracelet instead of a wedding band. The only difference in their bracelets is that his is a heavier weighted link than hers is. It's the style and symbol they chose for their marriage. I wear the collar my Master chose for me... the medallion is stamped with symbols that are relevant to us... it has a great deal of personal symbolism. Just like the wedding rings my husband and I wear, we chose what suits us, not what someone else thinks we should have.

Originally Posted by Ozgal

sorry that word just doesn't sit right with me.

To think people have fought and continue to fight NOT to be slaves, and that others enjoy wearing collars and being that submissive to another person ....

I think you're hung up on a word. Words can have multiple meanings and connotations. "Doctor" is always a good example of this. No one confuses an MD with a PhD or a DVM or a DDS, yet they're all doctors, serving very different functions. Context matters as well. These are consensual relationships entered into voluntarily. The only thing they actually have in common with forced enslavement is words.

Originally Posted by Ozgal

However, I still just can't grasp the attractivness of calling someone Master, nor wearing a collar, or having a partner who enables submissivness. ... nor just about any part of it!

I don't grasp the attractiveness of most vanilla marriages I see. *shrugs* Different strokes for different folks.

Originally Posted by starsfalling

What about if you have children? Will the girls think that they should serve a man in the same type of relationship? How will they tell the difference between what you say is a loving relationship and an abusive relationship? If they believe it is ok for a man to punish them and rule them, what will keep them from winding up in a very bad situation?

I can't speak for anyone else but I am very against exposing children to these dynamics... anything that exceeds (at most) the kind of "service" you'd see in older movies and TV shows. June Cleaver, etc. At most. And even then, I think parents have to be careful to make sure kids aren't growing up believing that they are entitled to service or expected to serve. Remember, about half of these relationships involve a female dominant and a male submissive.

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Everyone has a freak flag, some have larger flags than others. I personally would not want this sort of relationship. I guess my thoughts are when play becomes reality then this could damage the psyche in the long run. When one person becomes so dependent on another they can longer function on their own.

I actually met a couple that has this sort of relationship and to see it in person really really bothered me and I will tell you why. I will start off with the scenario first.

I met this couple by chance because they are my Dad's neighbors. I was visiting him a couple of years ago. His house is on the corner and a side street runs along the side of his house. The house behind him is the first house on that side street, so my Dad's backyard faces the neighbors backyard. My dad lives in his garage basically tinkering on something all day. So while visiting him we were standing in the garage. I then saw a woman come out of the house behind him wearing a very thin and very short nightgown. The woman had to have been about 300 lbs. So the tiny nightie was already pretty offensive. I also noticed she had a very large black choker type necklace around her neck. Then the guy came out. My dad waved to them and they came over. When the woman got closer I realized the necklace was actually a black leather dog collar with silver studs on it. Her nightgown was so thin you could see everything.

The guy was super creepy and scary looking. He looked like a skin head and something about him seemed evil. The woman did not say a word and she kept looking at her guy. Almost a look of admiration and fear. He finally barked at her to go back in the house and gave her a shove. I was speechless. I watched her walk back to the house and then I saw two children come out around the ages of 6 and 8 yrs of age. They called her mom.

I ignored the guy and had a hard time looking him in the eye because he was really scary. He only stayed a minute and I looked at my dad shocked. My dad said they were odd balls. My dad is pretty naive and I explained to him what their relationship was. My dad got beet red and said no way, they are just odd. I got pretty upset because of the kids in the house. I told my dad I wanted to call CPS. He got pissed at me and said we didnt know what was going on over there. Whatever. Later that day I called my sister and she said she saw the same thing a few days before. We agreed to call CPS. I guess the woman was a single mother, met this guy, he moved in and well they started this master/slave deal. My sister called CPS and the woman on the other end of the phone accused my sister of making up this story. It finally took my sister 3 phones before they agreed to send someone out. I dont know if they ever did. It seemed very unbelievable to CPS.

So I dont really care what people do but when children get involved I got a serious problem with it.

With all due respect, what you saw is a bunch of rednecks. If you don't want to be judged by my neighbors across the street, the ones we regularly call the cops on for their domestic squabbles, their (under 10 years) kids running the streets until midnight and later, the loud parties, etc. - then don't judge us by your dad's idiot neighbors.

If you don't want to be judged by the nimrods among you, why would you judge us by the nimrods among us? EVERY population segment has its idiots... and they're usually the most noticeable. The ones who are actually living Master/slave relationships? You would have NO clue unless they told you. None. Zero. Not even a hint.

[artemis agrotera]

Originally Posted by Wingsy

Why does it need to be? There's a couple I'm friends with who have been married for 31 years. They both wear a bracelet instead of a wedding band. The only difference in their bracelets is that his is a heavier weighted link than hers is. It's the style and symbol they chose for their marriage. I wear the collar my Master chose for me... the medallion is stamped with symbols that are relevant to us... it has a great deal of personal symbolism. Just like the wedding rings my husband and I wear, we chose what suits us, not what someone else thinks we should have.

I was wondering if it was an attempt to not make it "feel" like a collar.... I do believe a symbol of a relationship can be anything (although I'd never wear a collar....)

Originally Posted by Wingsy

I think you're hung up on a word. Words can have multiple meanings and connotations. "Doctor" is always a good example of this. No one confuses an MD with a PhD or a DVM or a DDS, yet they're all doctors, serving very different functions. Context matters as well. These are consensual relationships entered into voluntarily. The only thing they actually have in common with forced enslavement is words.

I guess I am.. however I've never heard of the word "slave" be used in anything but a negative term...

the term doctor is varied due to the different functions of a doctor. The term slave always means one thing.

Although all this talk about serving, did make me think of Bob Dylan & "Gotta Serve Somebody" .. so not all bad

Originally Posted by Wingsy

I don't grasp the attractiveness of most vanilla marriages I see. *shrugs* Different strokes for different folks.

Well the "vanilla" marriages that I know of have all the things you pointed out above. Without the submissiveness and without the collar wearing, without sitting at their partners feet, without "serving" their partner....

[*VaNiLlaGoRrilLa*]

I wouldn't mind treating a guy like a slave, but not really in a demeaning way... maybe just giving harsh instructions as to what I want him to do to me type slavery.

[fallingwater]

Originally Posted by Wingsy

With all due respect, what you saw is a bunch of rednecks. If you don't want to be judged by my neighbors across the street, the ones we regularly call the cops on for their domestic squabbles, their (under 10 years) kids running the streets until midnight and later, the loud parties, etc. - then don't judge us by your dad's idiot neighbors.

If you don't want to be judged by the nimrods among you, why would you judge us by the nimrods among us? EVERY population segment has its idiots... and they're usually the most noticeable. The ones who are actually living Master/slave relationships? You would have NO clue unless they told you. None. Zero. Not even a hint.

I have no doubt my father's neighbors were rednecks, white trash..what have you. As I stated I could care less what people do in the privacy of their own homes unless children are involved where such a lifestyle could be damaging.If I think children are in danger then yes I will judge because children have no choice when adults are in control.

I do not know you to judge you but IMO I feel that a long term relationship of this nature, in general, can have some affects on one's psyche. IMO it seems this type of relationship lets the submissive one revert back to childhood. All the big and small decisions are made by the dominant partner. This leaves the submissive one with no worries because it is all taken care of, much like how a parent would take care of a child. The submissive one only has one concern and that is to please the dominant partner on a full time basis. I can see where some would find this appealing, life is hard and life requires decision making. But how is this different from someone that devotes themselves to a cult? So what happens when the dominant partner leaves or dies? How does the submissive one cope when they have not made any decisions in years?

As far as not having a hint, well I respectfully disagree because there is always signs or hints on what people do. It all depends on whether or not you are paying attention. I suspect my good friend of many years is interested in this lifestyle. She has not told me outright but the men she finds always have some sort of connection to this play or lifestyle. You dont find that many people unless you are interested yourself.

[Wingsy]

Originally Posted by Ozgal

I was wondering if it was an attempt to not make it "feel" like a collar.... I do believe a symbol of a relationship can be anything (although I'd never wear a collar....)

Hmmm... it's an interesting distinction. I can't really answer for anyone but myself but for me, it "feels" much like my wedding ring "feels." I catch a glimpse of it in the mirror (or get smacked in the face with it if I'm leaning over and stand up just right *laughing*) and it reminds me of my bond to him, just as my wedding ring reminds me of my bond to my husband. If he wanted me to wear a leather studded collar, I would... but since that wouldn't really represent "us," it's unlikely he'd ever choose such a thing.

I also think that at least some of the people who go for the whole studded leather bit are picking it because they think they "have to." Or perhaps because they want people to notice. I'm not really sure. I'm not inside their heads. *chuckling*

Plus, the collar (for us) is only symbolic TO us. So there's no real need for someone else to be able to recognize it for what it is. If we attend a kink event, the collar isn't what tells someone I'm owned... it's the fact that I'm never more than a few feet away from him, the fact that I'm clearly serving him, etc. Not to mention the fact that should I be approached by someone who doesn't realize I'm owned at first glance, I'm more than capable of speaking up and saying, "thanks but no thanks."

Originally Posted by Ozgal

I guess I am.. however I've never heard of the word "slave" be used in anything but a negative term...

the term doctor is varied due to the different functions of a doctor. The term slave always means one thing.

No, it really doesn't. "She slaved away at a hot stove all day." No one hears that and thinks the woman is being subjugated and held against her will. "He is a slave to love..." Certainly it denotes some level of effort, servitude, work... but no one is leaping to the conclusion that "slave" within those contexts has anything to do with involuntary enslavement and abuse.

Other words - killer... murder... hate... "Killer smile" vs "serial killer." "He murdered that woman..." vs "He murdered that ball!" "I hate you..." vs "I hate to tell you this..." etc.

Originally Posted by Ozgal

Although all this talk about serving, did make me think of Bob Dylan & "Gotta Serve Somebody" .. so not all bad

*laughing* Awesome song!

Originally Posted by Ozgal

Well the "vanilla" marriages that I know of have all the things you pointed out above. Without the submissiveness and without the collar wearing, without sitting at their partners feet, without "serving" their partner....

*nodding* Understood... but if people are honest about it, we can acknowledge that they also usually involve some sort of power struggle. A good number of fights within a relationship stem from one partner's desire to have their wishes trump the others. Who is going to do this chore? How is this money going to be spent? Who is going to give the kids a bath? Who is the one that's going to argue with the insurance company/bill collector/customer service? Which family will be seen on holidays? What's going to be watched on TV? Where to go on vacation?

In a relationship like mine, we'll usually discuss these things... he values my opinion, my input and is generally willing to take my interests/desires into consideration... but ultimately, he's going to make the decision, and I'm going to respect that decision once its made.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Wingsy

Anyone here read the Twilight books? Have daughters who read it? How about the Anita Blake Vampire Hunter books? The Sookie Stackhouse books? Seen the movies/TV shows? Angel? Interview with a Vampire?

These are hugely popular "mainstream" things. The whole "vampire thing" is a major money maker.

It's also kink. The seduction by the vampire, the dominance of his gaze, her surrender, the exquisite pain of the bite... sound familiar?

How about all those ridiculous romance novels... the "bodice rippers." Strong, independent woman is seduced by the powerful, dominant man... and those books are full of language revolving around surrender and submission, scenes where he is demonstrating his dominance.

We, as a society, lap these up. We're not watching/reading them because they've got a good story line... it's the same damn story line repeated a million times. They're popular because they create a fantasy people are attracted to.

It isn't a mental imbalance... it might be cultural conditioning. But yanno, most of how we live our lives is dictated by cultural conditioning. Our work ethic, the way we go to church, give back to our community, protect the innocent, serve our country... they're all forms of cultural conditioning.

I thought this was such a great post and example.

Though I think the genre is so popular BECAUSE of the appeal to women, and not that the genre CREATED the appeal.

I've always wondered if the appeal is due to the fact that in a lot of ways it removed the control from the women. The utter submission is not their fault, and thus, they are free to totally enjoy without stigma.

[fallingwater]

Originally Posted by Wingsy

So someone just left me this somewhat passive-aggressive (and anonymous) rep comment...

Seriously, you should consider this amusing. This is a pretty long thread so people are curious and if the holy roller feels offended or sorry for you, then why did he/she even look at this thread? Just sayin...