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Where are these people getting their "narratives"?? That is what I never understood. Do we have a whole generation and more of men, or really people since dating woes are not limited to men, who have no role models of healthy relationships?
I don't think the several men here who seem utterly confused are all that representative of their generation. I guess I've known a couple of men who have really severely skewed ideas about women. One is my generation, and one is my son's. Neither went or goes into the detail that men do here, but they definitely see women as objects to acquire or a relationship as something one achieves, and that leads to some very over the top and sometimes really rude behavior. Most of the people I encounter off-line who go on about dating are women though, and they more often complain about actual experiences they've had, rather than the what ifs and that will never work laments the men here make.
The narratives are everywhere. We have an extremely successful sociopath who breaks all the rules and yet got elected president and has billions of dollars and probably never looked long for a date. I loathe him and I see nothing there to emulate, but obviously other people feel differently. Even people who know better have a hard time ignoring that his being a reprobate prick has served him extremely well.
Popular media is full of brooding anti-heroes and sadists and vampires being cast as what has to be viewed as romantic figures. Not that anyone therefore wants to be a sadist or a vampire, but still that stuff seeps into the consciousness of all of us to some minor extent, and it can subtly influence people who are already struggling. It sends the message that bad is good, or at least effective. And that sells.
And you're right, when people are struggling they often look for reasons outside themselves so they don't have to make changes, or perhaps because they fear that they can't change enough to ever get out of their stuckness. Men in particular seem to lash out at people when they're depressed, which I think is what we often see here.
Where are these people getting their "narratives"?? That is what I never understood. Do we have a whole generation and more of men, or really people since dating woes are not limited to men, who have no role models of healthy relationships?
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Originally Posted by homina12
I don't think the several men here who seem utterly confused are all that representative of their generation. I guess I've known a couple of men who have really severely skewed ideas about women. One is my generation, and one is my son's. Neither went or goes into the detail that men do here, but they definitely see women as objects to acquire or a relationship as something one achieves, and that leads to some very over the top and sometimes really rude behavior. Most of the people I encounter off-line who go on about dating are women though, and they more often complain about actual experiences they've had, rather than the what ifs and that will never work laments the men here make.
The narratives are everywhere. We have an extremely successful sociopath who breaks all the rules and yet got elected president and has billions of dollars and probably never looked long for a date. I loathe him and I see nothing there to emulate, but obviously other people feel differently. Even people who know better have a hard time ignoring that his being a reprobate prick has served him extremely well.
Popular media is full of brooding anti-heroes and sadists and vampires being cast as what has to be viewed as romantic figures. Not that anyone therefore wants to be a sadist or a vampire, but still that stuff seeps into the consciousness of all of us to some minor extent, and it can subtly influence people who are already struggling. It sends the message that bad is good, or at least effective. And that sells.
And you're right, when people are struggling they often look for reasons outside themselves so they don't have to make changes, or perhaps because they fear that they can't change enough to ever get out of their stuckness. Men in particular seem to lash out at people when they're depressed, which I think is what we often see here.
It's pretty simple really you're posting in a thread titled "Why do guys even bother with OLD"?
The narrative is, OLD is a joke and waste of time for many high quality men.
Myself and many others that have years of experience with it going back to the Yahoo days will always beat that drum. I honestly think it does hurt the self esteem of some men they need to understand it's a broken system that changed over the years for the worse. Whereas women like the ego boost they get from it.
I'm pretty sure you're one of the exact people I'm talking about so it's nice to know when I hit a nerve . If I remember right I got into this with you on one of the degree threads and you go absolutely bonkers over the degree subject.
Lol nice try. But I can see why thinking so would make you feel better. If anyone is upset or bothered it's you, because I'm not the one expressing hurt sensibilities over other people's preferences. My responding to your or other disgruntled daters' delicate feelings (bitterness and misplaced anger) shouldn't suggest that I'm the one with the problem. I can counter silly notions and assumptions without getting all up in my feelings. Your hurt sensibilities and misplaced anger is your own.
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Yes women on OLD can be extremely shallow when it comes to occupation and degree level / degree type. It's just another thing men need to know in that women they meet in RL will be much more normal on average. We're talking about OLD which is different.
Some women, sure. If you bothered to see beyond whatever you deem validates your own perception based on your limited and narrow experience you'd have picked up on the several times I shared my own husband's experiences with the dating scene (on and offline) as it relates to both income (and growth) and "career" field. A lot of dates that came to a halt, in subtle or not so subtle ways, when he revealed his lack of car, or his less than stellar salary. He didn't own a car for a decade, and there's the assumption he's just not driven enough in the professional. (Driven = high salary)
Yes, salary, among other things, matter to a lot of men and women, as do various other things. It wasn't a thing for me. Men can be "shallow" too. People have their preferences. If you don't meet then, move on.
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I am technically in STEM too but I don't want a woman choosing me based on that just because of some stupid stereotype or hipster, or yuppie trend.
Who said anything about choosing men based on that, and that alone? You. That's who. I didn't choose my husband because he's gifted in the hard sciences. He's quite knowledgeable in many other areas outside the hard sciences. He's also quite talented in the fine arts. And many other desirable qualities and characteristics. Nevermind that he doesn't even work in STEM. Lol.
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Blah blah blah men in STEM are this and that, and usually yadda yadda yadda.
That seriously makes me want to throw up every time I hear it.
I wouldn't know what "men" in STEM are or not, only the men I interacted with and talked to. It just so happened that a lot of my matches or exes have a background in STEM (and/or education). I mean, I did search for things like "gaming," "science fiction," "fantasy," "writing," names of filmmakers, musicians, authors, movies, hobbies, and other areas of interests to narrow down my search when I was still dating. It shouldn't be a shock if, say, a video game developer happens to be a match, or if I mention something in my profile that catches the attention of someone with similar interests.
Virtually all of these "STEM guys" are also writers and/or musicians, which also played a role in overall compatibility. You're inferring that "women" are into STEM, the professions, because they signify status or healthy bank accounts? I don't doubt this is true for some women. I mean, my husband's ex did encourage him to go back to school, and my MIL passive-aggressively brings up the kind of money he could be making had he not dropped out of his program. "If only you had finished..." 19 years later.
I don't deny STEM or a nice salary aren't a factor in the dating world, but, like anything, women are not a monolith. We don't all like the same/similar things for the same reasons. The men I happened to date who have a STEM background or are STEM-oriented were not making "bank." One, in particular, was paying $3500 in child support and alimony in San Diego, so his then-$90k salary wasn't going so far, and the other was unemployed, and before that, a high school film/video productions teacher. Imagine that.
I take that back, I briefly dated a video game developer making well into six figures. I think he produces and composes music now. He wasn't very content at Blizzard.
I said in the past that online dating was a waste of time but I haven't used it so I can't diss on what I've never used. I have always met women in real life and since that worked for me I never saw the use of an online dating site not that there's anything wrong with them. I just did what worked for me.
Online dating can be a challenge for some guys. I honestly do not think its necessary the guys fault, it's just the nature of online dating. Woman on dating sites experience two things, 1) High volume of messages 2) Constant guys trying to hookup, explicit pictures, ect. These things certainly happen, but I would like to think that woman are on there for a good reason.
However, I have experienced other things while online dating. Online dating is a glorified social media, people use it for other things besides finding a soul mate. My biggest issue is that because you have access to so many people, its hard to really be interested in one person. Meaning, while you are dating, they are still online talking to other people. In sum, it becomes addicting. My last bit is in regards to woman, and I do not know about men, that a large population of woman on dating sites are single mothers. This can create challenges for everyone.
Oh please, under your logic, I should have been happy dating this last one, as I really had no underlying complaint about the way she treated me, other than I found her physical features not a trigger for my enthusiasm, as they should in order to genuinely be with someone long-term. The problem is you fail to account for the human possibility that women ALSO fall in the category of being 0s and 5s. Women are just as likely, in fact I KNOW for a fact from this last experience they are, to want to date UP. The man has to settle, but the women shouldn't have to? Wrong. Women think they deserve a smoking hot guy when they are 5s themselves. They lift their noses at male 5s, all the time.
Very few people would actually have a problem "just finding someone" if everybody was willing to date DOWN. As we can observe from the real world, that is NOT how people are going about this. It's not as if there's this glut of male 5s running around getting pinged and tackled at every corner by female 5s, every single day. Nope. Female 5s are right there in the starbucks coffee line next to the universally approved 'smoking hot chick' , looking at the same guy she's looking at, acting with the same indignation as the trophy for why this guy isn't winking at her this very second. I think female 5s are more delusional than male 5s in that female 5s receive constant attention from physically unappealing men while they daydream about the Men's Health imaginary archetype.
Im not pulling this out of my rear, I have a sister (an 8), an exwife (a 6), ex girlfriends galore (5-8); I've heard plenty of anectodal evidence from all these women attesting to how much they were and are 'pinged' by men on the 'street' while they go casually about their day, relationship status not mattering one iota. This is simply NOT the case for men. Male 5s are rubbing it out in solitude, because they are categorically NOT being sought after by unappealing women. Most men and women who are online would attest to this lopsided disparity of contact initiation to be a parallel of exactly how it goes on in the real world as well. Spare me the suggestion men have a greater likelihood to being "unrealistic" in their physical desires. My own life experience suggests it is women, and not men, who are unwilling to date DOWN.
Exactly. I'm starting to see the word STEM way too much in this thread... Time to go. Lol
I'm pretty sure you're one of the exact people I'm talking about so it's nice to know when I hit a nerve . If I remember right I got into this with you on one of the degree threads and you go absolutely bonkers over the degree subject. Yes women on OLD can be extremely shallow when it comes to occupation and degree level / degree type.
Why is it any more shallow to want to share an interest in something someone feels passionate about than say what a person looks like? Seems less so, actually. I have a lot of different experiences in my life. So I find it comfortable to talk and connect with people across those. There are a lot of things that I have neither experience nor interest in. I am never ever ever going to interested in talking to someone about modern art. If you studied modern art in school, I may well conclude that we won't share much in common. As for the useless degree comment she made, I would tend to agree with you there.
I dated quite a few men that I met online (and all seemed to have been on dates with women they met online aside from me). So it's certainly working for some. And my boyfriend met me through online dating-- we've been together more than a year and a half now. So it worked for him too. He was online about 6 months before we met. I was on and off (I'd only subscribe for a month or so, then go offline for 2-3 months). But overall I was on and off OLD for about two years before I met the right man.
So...it took your boyfriend six months and no big deal? Okay. For you.
Funny thread post in POF forum:
"He told me he's usually dating six women off POF at the same time. That was in 2009. He is good looking but is a huge PLaYER. He always has multiple partners going and has hurt a lot of women, and is always searching for more. He's the exact type that most women want to avoid."
I'd just about give this guy a medal that he met six women off the site! Nope, party pooper woman can't let the guy have his fun. Sigh.
Shiittlord response to her:
And your point is?
How do 'we' know that he's not an ex that you have issues with?
'Naming & shaming' is a no-no that can get you banished.....
....even now......
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Originally Posted by somebodynew
The problem has always been and remains the attitude that a female partner is a device to get. What person who was looking for an actual mental and emotional fit broadcast emails hundreds of women?
You sound like so much fun. Are you a gender studies major in NYC? That aside, I don't send out many messages when I fire up an OD account, but I don't reply much, either. I get why guys do that mass mailing, though, since they get trigger happy due to lack of response. I get why women don't get this, since most of the time, they should get a response.
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Originally Posted by NeptuneDreams
I can't speak for other women, but for me, if you really want me to pay attention, you need to say something of substance. Make a comment about something from my profile that got your attention (and not my looks).
Of course I say this when this strategy has garnered 0 dates for me...but maybe the tactic works for men messaging women. Who knows?
Sounds great, but the typical "About Me" on POF is either "Just ask" or literally "..". Yes, two periods. Very...uh...attention grabbing and unique. Guys weren't allowed that, but you probably didn't check, so...if women don't come off as interesting, guys treated as second class citizens won't, either. Also, since that advice is as old as online dating itself, I'm sure the three women per metro area with a readable profile naturally ignore 800 messages about that one picture at Bruce Lee's grave then ***** about being asked about it, anyway.
See:
Don't write me any of the following messages:
1) "Hi."
Oh look, I just blocked you because your message was so complex.
2) "hey maaaa, whas gooddd?"
Certainly not your spelling, homeboy.
3) "So you're a supreme/above average/bigger idiot than the rest?"
You are not clever or funny..several hundred other people have also written me the same "joke."
4) "So...any luck on here?"
Yes. I'm engaged to one guy and dating another. Don't be dumb. If I had any luck, I wouldn't be on here.
5) "Did you really go to Bruce Lee's grave?"
.......F*cking duh. Why else would I have a picture next to it?
6) "Hey, where is Bruce Lee's grave?"
If you really want to know - GOOGLE IT.
I know you're just trying to make conversation..but that's not how ya do it.
I don't have time to sit here and educate you with a geography lesson.
Make up your mind. Anyway, the above example disappeared for a while and came back a single mom. Yeah, shocking, running off THE one guy who procreates with her! She lived close to me, too. Yikes.
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
Dunno! Never have. Never will. Desperation perhaps? For that matter, why do women?
If you're a gal guaranteed distant attention on a sausage fest website...
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Originally Posted by NewYorker11356
Just because it didn't work for you, doesn't mean it hasn't, or won't work for others. It's clearly worked for plenty of other people, and a lot have met people through it.
And regarding the stigma, don't you think it would work the other way around as well? If what you said is true, then most women wouldn't use it or go on dates with people from it.
Personally, OLD has worked out way better for me than IRL.
You're an exception. Most people don't live in a metro area of 20 million folks living like sardines along with tourists flocking in. Even okcupid's fabled research says online dating is about a 94% waste of time. Oh, "most women" don't use online dating. Most gals I know-a few-that used online dating were single moms...who promptly found guys would were fine with that, but they had to support as well. Great.
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Originally Posted by wanderlust76
It works best for guys in certain cities such as you in New York. You could take your exact profile and change your location to Las Vegas or something and you would probably have a totally different experience. I do way better in RL and that's how I got into all of my relationships in the past. There has to be a reason for that...the disparity doesn't really make sense. Some guys just have the magical profile for their area that tickles the women there such as having the right trendy buzzword degrees and occupations and so on. In areas that are more blue collar the guys that are rougher looking or have a certain look and have a job in the oil and gas industry or something will do better.
When OKC was in its prime, it said my best countries would be in Asia, Russia and (bleh) Scandinavia. Its seems around here, many of the POF women wanted a "redneck romeo", whatever that is. They are unanimously dishevelled looking. Anyway, with online dating, I'm supposed to be giddy over the selection when IRL any mention of my background has cuties coming at me. I wish I didn't quit that theater gig, but the pay started to stink. Sigh.
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Originally Posted by wanderlust76
Occupation and degree is 2 of the main things women look at on OLD profiles, ergo, assessment of social and socioeconomic status. They have done surveys on all of this I hope you realize. It stands to reason in certain areas people with a certain job and/or degree may do better based on just that alone. What I originally said is true location is a big part of success for men in regards to OLD.
Is the wheel being reinvented? We like cute gals and they tend to want security. We knew this, though. Who got left behind???
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust76
It's pretty simple really you're posting in a thread titled "Why do guys even bother with OLD"?
The narrative is, OLD is a joke and waste of time for many high quality men.
Myself and many others that have years of experience with it going back to the Yahoo days will always beat that drum. I honestly think it does hurt the self esteem of some men they need to understand it's a broken system that changed over the years for the worse. Whereas women like the ego boost they get from it.
Remember, these are the same women who wonder why copypasta is so popular versus time spent on personalized messages...oh, you have to be getting responses from lots of women, because tons of guys hit them up! But, you can't be messaging multiple women if you're a desirable guy, because that's not very romantic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoreJuice
Online dating can be a challenge for some guys. I honestly do not think its necessary the guys fault, it's just the nature of online dating. Woman on dating sites experience two things, 1) High volume of messages 2) Constant guys trying to hookup, explicit pictures, ect. These things certainly happen, but I would like to think that woman are on there for a good reason.
There is a lot more "average guy" for women to choose from online, which always gets a smirk from me when (not just here) a woman rattles off a story of her several relationships from OD sites (say what?) or that her one guy she met was "just an average guy". Average women, according to a site like POF, which limits my age range of communication to women ages 29-51 (if my memory of their restriction for a 30+ male is correct) is pretty nonexistent for non obese women who want children and don't have any. I'm glad I'm not stuck with that! I'm glad that white knight goon Markus thought me being a toy for an AARP member was more important than starting a family. Where do I sign up?
As for the explicit stuff, guys don't ask if it never ever paid off before. Wouldn't know personally, but it's not rocket science.
Last edited by AlfredB1979; 01-12-2017 at 11:39 PM..
So...it took your boyfriend six months and no big deal? Okay. For you.
Funny thread post in POF forum:
"He told me he's usually dating six women off POF at the same time. That was in 2009. He is good looking but is a huge PLaYER. He always has multiple partners going and has hurt a lot of women, and is always searching for more. He's the exact type that most women want to avoid."
I'd just about give this guy a medal that he met six women off the site! Nope, party pooper woman can't let the guy have his fun. Sigh.
They say that yet he's the type of guy so many women respond to and go on dates with, so they clearly don't want to avoid him, they just want more commitment from him than they'll get. He's exactly the type of man they want until he doesn't commit. OLD is heaven for those players in terms of easy sex/dates and they don't commit because they have too many options.
For every guy who's drowning in more dates/sex than he can handle online, there's probably 10 others who can't get any at all. It's a high percentage of women going after a smaller percentage of men.
It seems like most guys who use online dating will never get a date, even if they message 1000 different girls. If you are not very attractive and have a good paying job, most women wouldn't even bother with you. It seems like a waste of time and money for most guys since women can be extremely selective.
What else am I supposed to do at work?
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. If I remember right I got into this with you on one of the degree threads and you go absolutely bonkers over the degree subject.
