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It's not necessarily FEAR. For some women, yeah, but not for me. It's more that I feel legit bad because I am a decent human who takes zero pleasure in hurting someone else's feelings. And I hear so much about how rejection after rejection wrecks men's self esteem, and damned if I don't totally get it. I can easily imagine how painful that would be. It's easy to act like you'd be above letting it get to you, when you're not right there feeling it, but the times I've felt rejected by people I was into, yeah...it hurt. And I won't lie, I was kind of a petulant mess about it, for a bit, when it happened.
So having to do that to someone else, who I presume is a perfectly decent person with feelings? Especially if I know that they are lonely? Agh, it sucks. But I can't make desire or compatibility be there if it isn't. So I feel very much caught between a rock and a hard place, and I want so much to reassure the man that I am not judging him and finding him inadequate or not good enough in some way. It's not like that, it's not ABOUT that. You can be a wonderful, amazing human being and just not be specifically right for me. Just like I know I'm not an ugly woman, but I also know that I am not attractive to every single person (who is into women)... It isn't a value judgment.
I know it kinda sucks, because like I said, I know those "let's be friends" offers really aren't sincere and that's kind of crap, too. But I can't figure out a way to tell a guy who wanted a romantic or sexual connection, that I'm just not down, without feeling like a jerk about it. If anyone ever thinks of the perfect words to use, let me know. Just please understand that when women say this, usually they are feeling awkward and unhappy about the possibility that they might be hurting your feelings. We don't think you deserve to suffer, just because you're not a good fit for our needs. We can't say yes, but we sure wish we didn't have to be saying no.
There can be a fine line between being cruel and asserting one's boundaries.
There is the soft no and the hard no. The soft no gets a bad rap, like, its sending mixed messages, giving false hope.
But what is the alternative? Blunt honesty...like "No, not if you were the last man on the planet."
When I was dealing with my stalker, in the beginning I guess I was giving the soft no. I wasnt saying things "Dude you are creeping me out. Go away."
I was saying things like "It was nice to chat but this isnt a match." I also as things went on said things like "There will never be a relationship between us." And "I'm calling the cops on you."
I think thats considered a hard no.
What do you do when a hard no doesnt work? Get cops involved.
But I still feel sorry for him. I am assuming there was pain behind his behavior.
That empathy makes giving the hard no, hard to do.
Maybe he thought I was being coy and playing games. Like I wanted him to pursue me like a madman before I would give in to him. But I wasnt. I might want the guy to approach me first but that doesnt mean I want someone to stalk me to prove his love.
Not sure how I should have handled it differently to prevent it. Stalkers will stalk. Is it my fault he stalked me? Or is it his fault he couldnt take no for an answer?
If I had been cruel from the start would he have not stalked me? Was I too soft? Maybe, but what if I dont want to be cruel to every guy Im not interested in?
There can be a fine line between being cruel and asserting one's boundaries.
There is the soft no and the hard no. The soft no gets a bad rap, like, its sending mixed messages, giving false hope.
But what is the alternative? Blunt honesty...like "No, not if you were the last man on the planet."
When I was dealing with my stalker, in the beginning I guess I was giving the soft no. I wasnt saying things "Dude you are creeping me out. Go away."
I was saying things like "It was nice to chat but this isnt a match." I also as things went on said things like "There will never be a relationship between us." And "I'm calling the cops on you."
I think thats considered a hard no.
What do you do when a hard no doesnt work? Get cops involved.
But I still feel sorry for him. I am assuming there was pain behind his behavior.
That empathy makes giving the hard no, hard to do.
Maybe he thought I was being coy and playing games. Like I wanted him to pursue me like a madman before I would give in to him. But I wasnt. I might want the guy to approach me first but that doesnt mean I want someone to stalk me to prove his love.
Not sure how I should have handled it differently to prevent it. Stalkers will stalk. Is it my fault he stalked me? Or is it his fault he couldnt take no for an answer?
If I had been cruel from the start would he have not stalked me? Was I too soft? Maybe, but what if I dont want to be cruel to every guy Im not interested in?
I don't think your choices contributed anything to his impulse to stalk you. That's on him.
Based on what you've written before, I'd think you should add some activities to your life (once we're allowed to emerge from our cocoons) that you're into, and see if you can meet people who share your interests that way, more organically, rather than through a set-up that probably isn't tipped in your favor.
Isn't there stuff you've always wanted to do or learn that you could try now, beyond travel and golf?
Absolutely, once we are all able to get out and about again.
Don't let the pessimism sway you; as with any dating, it can be an enjoyable process - and you're going to meet women who aren't a match for you in any dating environment. The thing about online dating is you can often glance at a profile and have a fairly good idea if they have match potential and/or learn how to ask the right questions over time (or over dinner or a drink, if it comes to that). You'll meet professional, intelligent, attractive women and have great dates; you'll also meet women with lots of negativity, desperation and issues (who don't get beyond the first exchange). No sense in hiding from it; if you're serious about dating (or even if you aren't), it can (and does) work. The only thing you lose is a few hours or the cost of some dates if it doesn't; it's not like you're asking them for financial advice or anything, lol.
Exactly, and you dont even “lose†a few hours, you gain meeting someone new and learning more about what you’re looking for (or not looking for ) in a potential partner.
It seems like some people make a big production out of the act of meeting people: “I am now Entering the Online Dating World.†As if it takes an announcement and uniform.
It’s just another way to make a connection, and people born after the advent of internet communication don’t even see it as another way, it’s convenient and effective.
Exactly, and you dont even “lose†a few hours, you gain meeting someone new and learning more about what you’re looking for (or not looking for ) in a potential partner.
It seems like some people make a big production out of the act of meeting people: “I am now Entering the Online Dating World.†As if it takes an announcement and uniform.
Agreed - and your second paragraph made me grin. There's nothing to lose except one's common sense (or humor) in the dating process.
Yeah, I mean it's true, a thing that ThisTown123 has complained about where women try to soften romantic rejection by saying that they can be friends instead, but then they put zero actual energy into making a friendship happen after that.
I mean think about it, what does that even mean? What would that look like? Friends presumably have conversations, hang out together sometimes? Given the fact that you KNOW then and there, that this person was a stranger, with whom you have no established personal investment, and they wanted to date you but you were not feeling it... Any ongoing time/energy put into continuing to talk and hang out would feel like giving them false hope, I think.
Yep.
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Unless you had other friends in common, and you were spending time in groups of people socially. But heck, even guys that I didn't meet on a dating site, where it was never a "maybe we could get naked?" vibe...if they're straight dudes and especially if I ever had the feeling they might find me attractive, I avoid being alone one-on-one with them.
Yeah, it would be great if there was a group like the TV show "Friends", but this doesn't happen for everyone. Esp. if you live in an area where most of your friends got married, or coupled up...and now their focus is only on each other and no one outside their couple bubble.
Some have told me it's a good idea to be friends, you know, in case they can introduce you to their other...single friends. But I have never really found that to be the case as most people I knew...they knew no unattached singles. They just knew other couples.
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You just can't ever 100% trust that a guy who viewed you as a sexual prospect, is going to be able to stow that attraction and actually be a FRIEND...and whenever we have those interminable conversations where people are saying that men and women CAN'T be just friends (which I disagree with, but I think boundaries are needful) it's usually men, and they usually eventually add, "Well not if there is attraction involved."
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Though I have found that it's fairly easy to become "just friends" with former lovers, if whatever we had going on ran its course and he in particular was ready to move on from it.
Only anecdotal here, a woman I once dated, and it didn't work out...we were friends after the break up, but when she found someone new....she called me to tell me that we should no longer be in touch as it would be disrespectful to her new boyfriend.
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I guess this is one of few areas where I can acknowledge some pressure from the old "evo-bio mating strategy" talk. Guys are more driven to get some if they haven't yet had a taste. After that, maybe they attach and maybe they cool off. Women are more apt to hesitate or say no before sex ever has a chance to happen, and feel attached once it has. Which would make a lot of sense given who wins and who loses, if a careless conception happens and the Daddy doesn't stick around. But as I always say, all of that might work in theory but in practice, humans are just so much more complex than that. It's far from absolute. Very far.
But I do think that it can color our perceptions when we are dealing with strangers. And people on OLD are exactly that. Strangers, who might become prospects for sex and/or romance. Gaining friends online is done more on sites like Facebook, or here, anywhere there's a forum or group setting where conversations are happening. There are a number of posters here on CD that I consider to be the online version of "friends." I've met up with a couple of them in person, and I'd be willing to do that with others, it's fun. The men I knew from OLD back in the day? No, not so much.
In a nutshell, esp if you're interacting via online dating...if the intent is to romantically couple up with someone, then you're relegated to...friends...if the lady think it's not a match....then it may be a waste of time to make this attempt. The momentum or intent or mindset is already there to desire physical intimacy.
I knew of a female friend that had tons a guys she told that she just wanted to be friends with, they'd "go along" with it, but when they'd come together to a party...he'd get in her personal bubble, and call her "honey" or "Sweety" in front of other people. It got pretty awkward for her. I mean, they wouldn't get pervy or forceful, but just what I stated. They'd start acting like "she's with me" when out at gatherings.
I had a female friend that had to stop hanging with a good male friend of her's when they went to social gathering stogether. She said men would never approach her because THEY thought they were a couple. lol It just sabotaged her chances at actual single men at the party.
It seems like most guys who use online dating will never get a date, even if they message 1000 different girls. If you are not very attractive and have a good paying job, most women wouldn't even bother with you. It seems like a waste of time and money for most guys since women can be extremely selective.
A guy doesn't need to be ''very attractive'' to get dates from online dating apps, or from dating webites, and he doesn't need to have a ''good paying'' job or his own home before the age of 22.
All he needs is to initiate contact with women in his league. Women who are single and looking for a partner are more than happy to give a chance to a guy, so next time you reject a woman who doesn't fit your physical standards, think to yourself, '' what if I can be happy with her?''
Because you can be happy with her.
The reason why the guys who don't have much luck on dating apps, don't have much luck, is because they're all aiming for women who are more attractive than them. A lot more attractive than them in many cases.
I'm 6 feet tall, 180lbs at 10% body fat(I'm too lazy to hit the gym, so I just have an average body) which is pretty much the physical stats for most of the men around here, and I do just fine on Tinder and on other dating apps etc.
The average woman here is 5'7'' to 6 feet tall, at 110lbs to 130lbs for the tallest ones, and ''classically pretty'' and I don't personally know any average guy who has much much of a trouble hooking up with women, nor do they have to put much effort into finding a girlfriend.
Women aren't extremely selective. Matter of fact, most women who are physically attractive aren't all that picky with the men they date, as there's a lot more women who are hot, than there are men who are hot, and beautiful women still want to date, you know?
So, they will flirt and approach and hit on men who aren't 25 year old, 6'6'' 350lbs at 6% body fat, all the time, even when you're riding public transportation, for example. You just need to:
A) Keep yourself shaved on the daily. Women love a clean-shaved man.
B) Wear clothes that fit your body type, attractive clothes. No, I don't mean expensive clothes. My pants are like $10 a pop and 5$ for t-shirts.
C) Display confident body-language.
D) Don't be afraid to look at women and to smile at them.
The whole ''women are extremely selective and picky'' is just an excuse many men will use to tell themselves that it's a waste of time to work on themselves, if they are overweight/obese, because they want to protect their egos.
So, either go for women who match you in looks, or hire a personal trainer at the gym and tell him you want Ben Affleck's body for the Batman role, if you want women who look like a 18 year old Claudia Schiffer, I guess.
I don't buy it, so you have nothing but tall women where you live? lol
Tall women?
At 5'7''?
That's average height.
Women start being considered to betall when they're 5'9''+
There are more Countries in the world than just the 3 we find presently in the North American Continent.
there are even Californian men living in Europe as we speak, being born and raised in the United States of America doesn't mean you have to spend your entire life there
A guy doesn't need to be ''very attractive'' to get dates from online dating apps, or from dating webites, and he doesn't need to have a ''good paying'' job or his own home before the age of 22.
All he needs is to initiate contact with women in his league. Women who are single and looking for a partner are more than happy to give a chance to a guy, so next time you reject a woman who doesn't fit your physical standards, think to yourself, '' what if I can be happy with her?''
Because you can be happy with her.
The reason why the guys who don't have much luck on dating apps, don't have much luck, is because they're all aiming for women who are more attractive than them. A lot more attractive than them in many cases.
I'm 6 feet tall, 180lbs at 10% body fat(I'm too lazy to hit the gym, so I just have an average body) which is pretty much the physical stats for most of the men around here, and I do just fine on Tinder and on other dating apps etc.
The average woman here is 5'7'' to 6 feet tall, at 110lbs to 130lbs for the tallest ones, and ''classically pretty'' and I don't personally know any average guy who has much much of a trouble hooking up with women, nor do they have to put much effort into finding a girlfriend.
Women aren't extremely selective. Matter of fact, most women who are physically attractive aren't all that picky with the men they date, as there's a lot more women who are hot, than there are men who are hot, and beautiful women still want to date, you know?
So, they will flirt and approach and hit on men who aren't 25 year old, 6'6'' 350lbs at 6% body fat, all the time, even when you're riding public transportation, for example. You just need to:
A) Keep yourself shaved on the daily. Women love a clean-shaved man.
B) Wear clothes that fit your body type, attractive clothes. No, I don't mean expensive clothes. My pants are like $10 a pop and 5$ for t-shirts.
C) Display confident body-language.
D) Don't be afraid to look at women and to smile at them.
The whole ''women are extremely selective and picky'' is just an excuse many men will use to tell themselves that it's a waste of time to work on themselves, if they are overweight/obese, because they want to protect their egos.
So, either go for women who match you in looks, or hire a personal trainer at the gym and tell him you want Ben Affleck's body for the Batman role, if you want women who look like a 18 year old Claudia Schiffer, I guess.
I think you're well intentioned and your advice is generally good, but some of your perceptions may be off. I don't know of any place where men are typically 6 ft tall and 10% body fat. About 1 % of men have a body fat that low. Maybe fewer. I also don't know of a place where average women are 3-8 inches taller than average women, and while half a foot taller than average, around 30 lbs lighter than average. So average means something, and something different from what you seem to think it means.
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) in a potential partner. 
