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I agree with you. As humans we all have to coexist harmoniously. Very few people can or want to live in total isolation, but that is the only situation in which one is truly freed of the necessity to conform to societal expectations, and can truly say what others think about them doesnt make a difference.
Most people dont stop to think about this because its so second nature to most people. Like fish dont think about what they are doing as swimming in water. For fish its just their environment that they dont need to define or analyze.
I lived abroad for about 7 years so that experience let me know how it feels to be an alien, a misfit, to not know all the subtleties going on around me. Like "Was that hand gesture something rude directed at me, or was that person just scratching their face?" Things like that.
Im not the most socially proficient person anyways since Im kind of a quiet bookworm, but in my own culture at least I know where I fit in, I know whats going on around me, I know if someone likes me or not, and I know the rituals and the expectations. I think living abroad made me more attuned and aware than I had been before.
But there is such a thing as stigma and being shunned by ones community. Its social control and its very effective. Peer pressure is another way to put it.
So the need to be approved of and accepted is inborn, whether we like it or not.
Reminds me of my 7 long years (and counting) living in Oklahoma. Of course, its not the same. I understand what you mean about being an American in a foreign country, though I haven't lived abroad.
Reminds me of my 7 long years (and counting) living in Oklahoma. Of course, its not the same. I understand what you mean about being an American in a foreign country, though I haven't lived abroad.
I agree, it can feel that way even living in a different state I think. I moved just the next state over from my home state, and even here have noticed its a different culture. I prefer it much more to my home state though.
I agree, it can feel that way even living in a different state I think. I moved just the next state over from my home state, and even here have noticed its a different culture. I prefer it much more to my home state though.
LOL I can think of 2 examples, from my several relocations to different regions of the US...
The first, when I moved from the East Coast/Rust Belt and landed in Des Moines, Iowa: I was not accustomed to casual friendliness from strangers. Where I grew up in the DC suburbs, that was frowned upon as being "fake." The first time I ate in a fast food restaurant and the cashier taking my order smiled at me the whole time, I was thinking, "What the hell is your problem, grinning at me like an idiot? What? Do I have something on my face? Are you laughing at me? WHAT??" That sort of thing was so strange to me that it made me feel anxious and hostile.
Then when I moved here to Colorado: I would make quippy little jokes in casual conversation to random people (the friendliness rubbed off on me eventually) and they would stare at me like I'd grown a second head, and absolutely never laugh at my jokes as people in Iowa or Washington where I'd lived previously, used to. New friends and coworkers also did not get my sense of humor. Gradually that problem eased...once in a while I still don't get the reaction I'm hoping for, but more often I do. And the more people get to know me, the more they "get" my sense of humor. But while I cannot pin down any particular changes, I do think that how I express myself has probably shifted to accommodate the regional social behavior here to some extent.
LOL I can think of 2 examples, from my several relocations to different regions of the US...
The first, when I moved from the East Coast/Rust Belt and landed in Des Moines, Iowa: I was not accustomed to casual friendliness from strangers. Where I grew up in the DC suburbs, that was frowned upon as being "fake." The first time I ate in a fast food restaurant and the cashier taking my order smiled at me the whole time, I was thinking, "What the hell is your problem, grinning at me like an idiot? What? Do I have something on my face? Are you laughing at me? WHAT??" That sort of thing was so strange to me that it made me feel anxious and hostile.
Then when I moved here to Colorado: I would make quippy little jokes in casual conversation to random people (the friendliness rubbed off on me eventually) and they would stare at me like I'd grown a second head, and absolutely never laugh at my jokes as people in Iowa or Washington where I'd lived previously, used to. New friends and coworkers also did not get my sense of humor. Gradually that problem eased...once in a while I still don't get the reaction I'm hoping for, but more often I do. And the more people get to know me, the more they "get" my sense of humor. But while I cannot pin down any particular changes, I do think that how I express myself has probably shifted to accommodate the regional social behavior here to some extent.
Yep, exactly. Californians have a reputation for being friendly but I find them snobby, insular. Perhaps friendly in a disengenuous way?
The last place I lived there I lived there almost 3 years and still had never talked to my neighbors. Whenever I walked past a group of teenage kids I could bank on the fact they would stare at me and say or do something kind of ...harassing.
Here though my neighbors introduced themselves the very day I moved in. Brought home baked cookies. I was thinking like "What do they want from me? Is this a trick?"
No, turned out to be neighborly friendliness.
I still cringe a bit when I walk past a group of teens but here they just ignore me.
Sorry if we are derailing but I think this is still tangentially related to the OP.
Online dating is its own subculture with its own rules, maybe.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00
Yep, exactly. Californians have a reputation for being friendly but I find them snobby, insular. Perhaps friendly in a disengenuous way?
You speak of your dating difficulties in different threads a lot & IMO you'll never be successful at online dating or relationships.......if you are so biased against an entire state of people for pete's sakes.
You speak of your dating difficulties in different threads a lot & IMO you'll never be successful at online dating or relationships.......if you are so biased against an entire state of people for pete's sakes.
I dated very successfully for years.
I only post about the problematic dates on here because there is no need to seek advice on the nonproblematic ones. So, yes, my posting history might give a skewed perspective, for that reason.
Yep, exactly. Californians have a reputation for being friendly but I find them snobby, insular. Perhaps friendly in a disengenuous way?
The last place I lived there I lived there almost 3 years and still had never talked to my neighbors. Whenever I walked past a group of teenage kids I could bank on the fact they would stare at me and say or do something kind of ...harassing.
Here though my neighbors introduced themselves the very day I moved in. Brought home baked cookies. I was thinking like "What do they want from me? Is this a trick?"
No, turned out to be neighborly friendliness.
I still cringe a bit when I walk past a group of teens but here they just ignore me.
Sorry if we are derailing but I think this is still tangentially related to the OP.
Online dating is its own subculture with its own rules, maybe.
People I knew on the west coast were super mega friendly, but often more so when they thought they could get some personal benefit from it. It WAS fake. The people I thought I was close to, because they acted like we were besties, several ended up trying to take advantage of me or stab me in the back.
It's nothing at all like Midwest or "heartland" friendliness where it may not run necessarily very deep, but it is genuine. (This person clearly isn't gunning to be your BFF but they do really hope ya have a nice day.)
Southern friendliness is a little bit tricky. I always felt like, on the one hand, you might get fairly genuine warmth from people in the South, though if they don't approve of you on first glance, you might also get hostility...but many of them are also good at conveying insult wrapped up in sugary sweetness, like they are getting one over on you when they say, "Well bless your heart." We all know what that means now, I think.
But see, what you've been describing is being self-aware, even to the extent of mild paranoia, about your lack of speaking the local non-verbal or subtle social lingo. I think that when it comes to men who chronically struggle in dating, there are some who align with that, who believe that they are so flawed or unsuitable that they are being judged, rejected, even mocked or insulted, all the time, like a person who does not speak the language feels like strangers are talking crap about them right under their nose maybe. But there are also some who lack clarity in self-assessment...and I don't know how to help them, especially when we can't meet in person because we're on a site like this and they live far away, because often they're pretty defensive about it. As I've said, what they believe to be the problem holding them back, I think is rarely the real problem that's holding them back. But they don't really want to dig around and discover what it really is. They seem stuck, and they also seem to resist getting un-stuck.
So for anyone who lives that life, I mean clearly online dating might not work out, but I'm not sure if the results will be any worse than trying to meet women in person in the world, and it can't be worse than trying nothing at all...except that one is not risking disappointment, I guess.
I only post about the problematic dates on here because there is no need to seek advice on the nonproblematic ones. So, yes, my posting history might give a skewed perspective, for that reason.
Moongirl, I understand you. I get the same criticism, or more like extreme judgment. But I also never had problems dating before. part of the reason I have the past 7 years is where I live (insular), and the other is the swipe culture. That problem seems to have been solved and I will be out of the dating world permanently, I hope.
Moongirl, I understand you. I get the same criticism, or more like extreme judgment. But I also never had problems dating before. part of the reason I have the past 7 years is where I live (insular), and the other is the swipe culture. That problem seems to have been solved and I will be out of the dating world permanently, I hope.
But see, what you've been describing is being self-aware, even to the extent of mild paranoia, about your lack of speaking the local non-verbal or subtle social lingo. I think that when it comes to men who chronically struggle in dating, there are some who align with that, who believe that they are so flawed or unsuitable that they are being judged, rejected, even mocked or insulted, all the time, like a person who does not speak the language feels like strangers are talking crap about them right under their nose maybe. But there are also some who lack clarity in self-assessment...and I don't know how to help them, especially when we can't meet in person because we're on a site like this and they live far away, because often they're pretty defensive about it. As I've said, what they believe to be the problem holding them back, I think is rarely the real problem that's holding them back. But they don't really want to dig around and discover what it really is. They seem stuck, and they also seem to resist getting un-stuck..
I’d say that’s me in terms of being paranoid at times thinking someone’s talking about you or mocking you. I think it came from getting bullied in high school. I wasn’t bullied bad like beaten or anything but made fun of and I couldn’t understand why I was kinda shy but not some extreme weirdo or anything. I was never bullied before this so I didn’t get it.
I think that built up a paranoia that something must be wrong with me personality wise and why I take it personally when I get rejected or feel like someone doesnt like me wheter it’s asking a women out or anybody I take it very personally. It’s hard for me to be vulnerable because of that so I rarely struck A convo with a women I find attractive in fear of being judged or even people in general. I start thinking am I gonna say the wrong thing and look weird?
Once people get to know me I’d say most really like me I just don’t open up easily right away till I know you or have an opening from a friend or someone which probably hinders me with women. People I don’t know in general I think I have a fear of opening up to and being vulnerable and judged. My strength is being introduced to other people from friends or family and then easing my way in and of usually works but as far as strangers I’m shy at first.
Last edited by JBT1980; 04-22-2020 at 11:29 AM..
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You speak of your dating difficulties in different threads a lot & IMO you'll never be successful at online dating or relationships.......if you are so biased against an entire state of people for pete's sakes.
