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Thank you for sharing more about your personal exp. -- I am very truly sorry to hear that things didn't turn out with you and the guy actually becoming a couple due to his apparent lack of interest after your very sweet, compassionate, and generous attempts to indicate your earlier interest to him If anything, the kiss should have been a wake-up and clarion call for him that you liked him very much. Again I am so sorry that things didn't work out as you had hoped...
Just wondering though, out of sheer curiosity -- perhaps one of the reasons his return kiss was not passionate was because he may not have had much total experience, with kissing itself I mean? I mean, I myself have only ever kissed like 4 girls total, in my life (and 3 of those 4 kisses were closed-mouth only). Please understand, I agree 100% that he definitely should have shown more reciprocal interest, back to you when you had provided those very nice and specific hints of interest to him -- I'm not saying that he shouldn't have -- but that maybe he wasn't fully 100% familiar, with how to kiss someone he likes passionately? Anyway, just a possible thought...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean
I don't know about others, but a recent example of mine is when I thought a man had a romantic interest and me. I was unsure if he was just shy due to him being shot down pretty hard in the past or if he had reservations because he's known me for a while and during that time I was mostly in another relationship.
I basically tried to make it easier for him by giving him some openings. I gave him a hug (a little bit longer than one would give a friend). But that didn't seem to open up anything. When we were walking, he was going a bit fast so I gently grabbed his forearm and said, "slow down, I can't keep up" and then continued holding his arm (he didn't object, but again, no response). And my last try was I kissed him goodnight--on the lips. He kissed back, but it was like kissing a relative--no passion behind it.
He's made no move toward me since, but still stays friendly and we still hang out together now and then. I figured he's not interested.
I initiated, tried to ice break but with no response from him (either good or bad really.. it's like he didn't know how to respond to be frank. I couldn't tell if he was delighted/surprised or horrified but didn't want to hurt my feelings surprised).
But I tried and but I am not going to chase him. He's a good friend and a good man (a real "nice-guy" too... not a self proclaimed one). I haven't written him off, but I am moving on and looking for someone else because I would think if he was interested, he would have stepped up to the plate by now.
That's kind of my outlook on women pursuing in action.
Thank you for the very helpful feedback and perspective! J/c, when you had mentioned "Odds are good that a man she is interested in won't worry so much about being rejected", were you referring to man who isn't afraid of rejection's higher overall level of confidence, vs. for example a guy who has been repeatedly rejected and thus may be experiencing less total confidence? (And since confidence is nearly-universally seen as an attractive quality?) If I misinterpreted your quoted selection above, I apologize...
I don't think confidence is always attached to the number of times a man has been rejected. Some people just never try and so they've never been rejected but they've also never asked. Their confidence is very low. It's like watching sales people work. The best sales people will take rejection after rejection and still keep going as though the rejections never happened. They stay confident in the product they are selling.
You can't assume confident guys experience less rejection than you. They just don't let fear rule their decisions.
I would define "pursue" as asking a man out and initiating a date with romantic intentions.
My point of view comes from far too many "why did he date me if he didn't want a committed relationship blah blah blah..." type conversations with friends. Far too many. And the common thread in these "woe is me" stories is that the woman pursued the guy in some way, shape or form.
Women need to stop thinking that a man saying "yes" to a date means that he automatically likes you or sees you with romantic interest. It doesn't. A man having sex with you does not mean that he likes you or sees you as his "girl". It doesn't. And women are really confused by these facts.
I think hints from a lady is the way to go. Indirect pursuit, rather than direct. That is why there are a lot of qualifiers in my original post.
I don't know about others, but a recent example of mine is when I thought a man had a romantic interest and me. I was unsure if he was just shy due to him being shot down pretty hard in the past or if he had reservations because he's known me for a while and during that time I was mostly in another relationship.
I basically tried to make it easier for him by giving him some openings. I gave him a hug (a little bit longer than one would give a friend). But that didn't seem to open up anything. When we were walking, he was going a bit fast so I gently grabbed his forearm and said, "slow down, I can't keep up" and then continued holding his arm (he didn't object, but again, no response). And my last try was I kissed him goodnight--on the lips. He kissed back, but it was like kissing a relative--no passion behind it.
He's made no move toward me since, but still stays friendly and we still hang out together now and then. I figured he's not interested.
I initiated, tried to ice break but with no response from him (either good or bad really.. it's like he didn't know how to respond to be frank. I couldn't tell if he was delighted/surprised or horrified but didn't want to hurt my feelings surprised).
But I tried but I am not going to chase him. He's a good friend and a good man (a real "nice-guy" too... not a self proclaimed one). I haven't written him off, but I am moving on and looking for someone else because I would think if he was interested, he would have stepped up to the plate by now.
That's kind of my outlook on women pursuing in action.
Yep, I'd take that as a clear no. And that's pretty close to what I mean by subtle hints, although I tend to start with body language and smiles first. I've found there's a certain "type" that don't tend to catch those. The nerdy not so socially aware types. It can be a lot of fun to see how far you can take body language and innuendo before they catch on that you're interested.
I agree with this 110%. I used to think and act like OP. I thought hey, if I like a guy why can't I go after what I want? A few years of dating and a lot of disappointment later, I see I was wrong. A man that really is interested in a woman WILL pursue her. And he will value her when and if he ever obtains her because she didn't just fall into his lap. He had to work for her! If a man really likes a woman, then she doesn't need to pursue him. She doesn't need to ask him for dates because he is so anxious to see her he's already made the date before she could even think to ask. She doesn't need to call and text him because she hasn't heard from him for days because he's calling her first. She doesn't have to wonder where the relationship is going because he makes it clear. He can't stand the thought of her meeting someone else and he's anxious to make their relationship exclusive. This is how it is.
I've dated guys where I thought gee why haven't I heard from him for a few days or why hasn't he asked me out again yet, or it's been a couple months and I don't know where this is going or if we're even exclusive. The old me thought well I'll just ask him! Now I see the truth - they just weren't that into me. Or maybe I just made it too easy for them and was too available, so they didn't appreciate me.
Sounds like a book, what you say. I have tried to figure out where I "went wrong." There is no right and wrong as every situation is different. If a man likes you (Please re read OP a lot of qualifiers there. As I said "IF they are not on the fence.") to a large extent, you can get away with a lot. Including pursuing. A lot boils down to how much someone likes you. If someone likes you, they will justify any behavior that isn't something they generally like because it comes from you. We love who we love but it is sometimes important to choose to date (regardless of who pursued.) someone or not based on logic that states weather or not we are choosing well. I don't think guys like talking about "what's our status." But yes, definitely not an encouraging sign if they don't bring it up.
I don't think confidence is always attached to the number of times a man has been rejected. Some people just never try and so they've never been rejected but they've also never asked. Their confidence is very low. It's like watching sales people work. The best sales people will take rejection after rejection and still keep going as though the rejections never happened. They stay confident in the product they are selling.
You can't assume confident guys experience less rejection than you. They just don't let fear rule their decisions.
Right, if anything confident guys experience more rejection, because they put themselves out there more. The difference is their entire sense of self-worth doesn't hinge on a woman saying "no." Plenty of fish in the sea and all.
Not really. I know dudes who pursue women just to sleep with them and dump them. Or you may pursue a woman and find out that she's not all what she's cracked up to be. He values her? Like a new car. What happens when he sees something newer and shinier?
Exactly. Some men value newness. Got to familiarize yourself with their pattern (the getting to know you before sex) and if this is the pattern, not a logical choice as you can't stay new and therefor can't be what he wants. Just one example.
Last edited by lastwomanstanding; 06-21-2013 at 11:44 AM..
I don't think confidence is always attached to the number of times a man has been rejected. Some people just never try and so they've never been rejected but they've also never asked. Their confidence is very low. It's like watching sales people work. The best sales people will take rejection after rejection and still keep going as though the rejections never happened. They stay confident in the product they are selling.
You can't assume confident guys experience less rejection than you. They just don't let fear rule their decisions.
Thanks -- yes I think I understand and I fully-agree that regardless of their level of confidence, guys should definitely try to the very best of their ability to succeed, and even in the face of repeated rejection. I guess in my earlier post, I should have been more specific -- for example, the guy that tries literally 100's of times or more and for years, but still fails each and every time no matter what he does, thus making him feel not only less-than-confident, but in fact fundamentally and totally unlovable.
The difference, is that person hears a "yes" at times.
I can tell you that I never heard that once, or any inclination of a "yes" when I was approaching, so I realized that it wasn't worth my time and energy, and put that energy to a much better use, which was a better option for me since I was getting some pretty awful responses from women before I backed out completely.
Not really. I know dudes who pursue women just to sleep with them and dump them. Or you may pursue a woman and find out that she's not all what she's cracked up to be. He values her? Like a new car. What happens when he sees something newer and shinier?
True...but some men can also get attached more easily, and might value the attachment and the feelings he has for a specific woman, and not want anyone else, no matter how beautiful the other woman might be...
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If anything, the kiss should have been a wake-up and clarion call for him that you liked him very much. Again I am so sorry that things didn't work out as you had hoped... 
I mean, I myself have only ever kissed like 4 girls total, in my life (and 3 of those 4 kisses were closed-mouth only). Please understand, I agree 100% that he definitely should have shown more reciprocal interest, back to you when you had provided those very nice and specific hints of interest to him -- I'm not saying that he shouldn't have -- but that maybe he wasn't fully 100% familiar, with how to kiss someone he likes passionately? Anyway, just a possible thought...
