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Ah. I don't go to bars so I acknowledge that i may not understand the culture.
The problem I and my women friends have is men doing this at restaurants and coffee shops, at lunchtime. Every Frickin' Time.
Welll... women are trained from childhood to never show when they don't appreciate it. So a socially unskilled guy might not be an accurate assessor.
Intruding gracefully is still an intrusion. And, IME, very disruptive of what was, up until then, a fun tim
Yes. Meaning if you are involving others you should be paying them. AND getting their consent. It's not worth disrupting my lunch with friends for under $50k.
Heh. I thought you were talking about yourself. Told you I am self confident.
Intruding gracefully may be an intrusion, but it is just conversation. Get over your angst. When we do not intrude, we are criticized, too. "Why are the guys at coffee shops, lounges, etc so shy and won't talk to us"? It is a no-win for guys. I have overheard women saying this, too. They complain when we talk to them and they complain when we don't talk to them.
Intruding gracefully may be an intrusion, but it is just conversation. Get over your angst. When we do not intrude, we are criticized, too. "Why are the guys at coffee shops, lounges, etc so shy and won't talk to us"? It is a no-win for guys. I have overheard women saying this, too. They complain when we talk to them and they complain when we don't talk to them.
It's not angst (do you even know what that word means?).
Imagine that every time you are at a business lunch with work colleagues, EVERY time, some disshevelled fat ugly woman your mom's age, with no makeup and wearing sweatpants, comes up and tries to go on about how nice your suit and tie are. You try to be polite while getting her to leave quickly, but the flow of the conversation is disrupted and your colleagues say they gotta go, without closing the deal.
Ah. I don't go to bars so I acknowledge that i may not understand the culture.
The problem I and my women friends have is men doing this at restaurants and coffee shops, at lunchtime. Every Frickin' Time.
Welll... women are trained from childhood to never show when they don't appreciate it. So a socially unskilled guy might not be an accurate assessor.
Intruding gracefully is still an intrusion. And, IME, very disruptive of what was, up until then, a fun time.
Yes. Meaning if you are involving others you should be paying them. AND getting their consent. It's not worth disrupting my lunch with friends for under $50k.
Heh. I thought you were talking about yourself. Told you I am self confident.
So the gist is approach women and start conversations. But NOT when women don't want it. Which men should obviously know.
It's not angst (do you even know what that word means?).
Imagine that every time you are at a business lunch with work colleagues, EVERY time, some disshevelled fat ugly woman your mom's age, with no makeup and wearing sweatpants, comes up and tries to go on about how nice your suit and tie are. You try to be polite while getting her to leave quickly, but the flow of the conversation is disrupted and your colleagues say they gotta go, without closing the deal.
Imagine everytime you have business to tend to that you do it before lunch in an office where there is absolute privacy without distruption.
The expectancy of being left alone in a public place is an absolute pure entitlement mindset.
If you want privacy while in public go to a place where you can get a small private room or a very expensive restaurant where they don't let old people wearing sweat pants into the place.
(I can barely wait until you are old and you find out exactly how it is to be referred to as disrespectfully by those younger than you).
Sure, it is a number's game but if you are failing a lot, try to change your approach too. Try different things. Stick with whats working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I dunno, it used to drive me nuts when I was in my 20s and guys would say that. It always meant they wanted me to do 100% of the work, and get no appreciation.
I haven't run into that comment since then, so I dunno if there is a grownup version that is more equitable.
Maybe what they were saying was you shouldn't be forcing it, either? I don't expect anyone to do the work - I expect that it's not like work at all when it's the right person (and this has been the case in past relationships.)
Relationships are give and take, they should be equitable. In the beginning the same tone should be set - which is partially why I think PUA is so stupid. Getting with anyone that required you to put all the effort in seems like terrible advice, for either sex.
Of course, either sex is full of people who do that sort of thing, and go on to complain about it to everyone who will listen. I JUST WISH HE WOULD BE NICER/MORE LOVING/CARING TO ME Well honey, maybe he's just an ******* whom you've idealized as some sort of smart, occasionally funny, occasionally caring leader of the pack and you won't move on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessgeek
Intruding gracefully may be an intrusion, but it is just conversation. Get over your angst. When we do not intrude, we are criticized, too. "Why are the guys at coffee shops, lounges, etc so shy and won't talk to us"? It is a no-win for guys. I have overheard women saying this, too. They complain when we talk to them and they complain when we don't talk to them.
This is interesting, but I think this goes back to one of Nila's former points, albeit for the opposite sex...certainly complaining about men not approaching you resembles a haughty sense of entitlement.
It's no-win for everyone in this life. Look around long enough and you'll find someone who disagrees/is at odds with you on just about everything.
I think it matters because it leads to getting rejected all the time, and I think that has an effect on a person. It messes up their self esteem.
And, as we see every day on this forum, it often leads to a huge amount of suppressed rage towards women. And there is no bigger ladybonerkiller than that.
So the gist is approach women and start conversations. But NOT when women don't want it. Which men should obviously know.
The gist is that PUA sites have been lying to you about how dating works, in order to get your money.
In real life, in western society, virtually ALL successful approaches are initiated by women. Women initiate via body language, and if a man is interested he follows up by saying something. A man who 'approaches' a woman who has not previously initiated with him is rejected, shunned, and ridiculed just like a man who brings his puppy into a nice restaurant and lets it pee on the table. He is violating custom and icking people out.
If PUA dudes were actually interested in teaching you how to get women, they would tell you this, and they would focus on how to accurately read body language. But instead, they carefully teach techniques that will not work, while mixing that in with a bunch of rah-rah cheerleading, and telling you it is going to start working Any Day Now.
And I'll be damned, because there's been numerous situations in my life where body language was presented and I didn't act on it. Of course I was often with someone, and it can take awhile to get out of the "taken" mode.
The gist is that PUA sites have been lying to you about how dating works, in order to get your money.
In real life, in western society, virtually ALL successful approaches are initiated by women. Women initiate via body language, and if a man is interested he follows up by saying something. A man who 'approaches' a woman who has not previously initiated with him is rejected, shunned, and ridiculed just like a man who brings his puppy into a nice restaurant and lets it pee on the table. He is violating custom and icking people out.
If PUA dudes were actually interested in teaching you how to get women, they would tell you this, and they would focus on how to accurately read body language. But instead, they carefully teach techniques that will not work, while mixing that in with a bunch of rah-rah cheerleading, and telling you it is going to start working Any Day Now.
I have sent you a PM Nila. I hope you will read it.
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