It's A Numbers Game (dates, female, gay, straight)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am all in favor of guys learning to become more confident, comfortable with themselves, and able to interact socially.
But I think you are an unusual person in that you were able to pick out the good bits from PUA and use them in that way.
For most guys, PUA has the result of being the opposite of self improvement; it is self degradation.
It makes men less attractive and less successful with women, and it does this by teaching them to think of women as different from men, inferior, and themselves at entitled in an unhealthy way. These changes might help get a guy through some smalltalk, but they are a huge bonerkiller to all women except those with huge emotional issues.
And you gotta remember: that's how PUA started. It's stated purpose was to teach men to identify women with emotional issues, who did not want to have sex, and manipulate them into ONS that they did not want. Making sure they had a bad time was part of it: if she wanted to talk to you afterwards that was considered a failure.
It's kind of bizarre that so many young men with social issues have latched onto this as a way to find healthy, sustainable, fun relationships. And of course the guys who run PUA see the profit potential, so they encourage them to stick around. But the roots are still there, and I see their effect in posts here every day. Not to mention IRL.
Again, I am glad you were able to find some gems among the dross. But I think that the effect on most men is to leave them worse off.
What percentage of guys do you reject? What would you prefer? That we go home and cry...or worse?
I have rejected 100% of strange men who approach me asking for no strings attached sex, and that includes all the tall ones, rich ones, handsome ones, and Brad Pitt himself if he should happen to try to pick me up, no matter what sort of clever manipulation the man is using.
The majority of women do not want to have sex with total strangers. So your chances of rejection are very high. What would I prefer? I would prefer that you finally realize that the approach is not working for you and stop coming on like a high pressure used car salesman.
I will add that I am always polite with the rejection. "No thank you" instead of throwing a drink in the man's face. Although, I did hurt the man who grabbed me and dry humped me. He'll maybe be more careful about that next time, so I figure I was doing him a favor before someone hurts him a lot worse than I did.
Thanks Nila, i think you are right for the most part.
if you really want to know about how PUA got started, read the book "The Game" by Niel Strauss (aka Style). He was a NY Times writer and is a fairly healthy person and recently gave up the PUA life because he is now married. So game over for him, as i thought it was for me. Similairly, the main character in the book Mystery does have a history of dysfunctional relationships, but is perhaps the master of all those PUAs. So while his personal life maybe a reflection of his line of thinking, it doesnt mean he doesn't have anything to offer/teach other guys in meeting and dating women. I have met them both.
And like i've said before, there is a lot of free PUA junk out there but the two keys to success IMHO, it finding the good in that pile of hay (my find was understanding dating and relationships), and live practice interacting with women, and respectfully of course. it's doesn't help at all to be offensive, rude, or a tool.
Thanks Nila, i think you are right for the most part.
if you really want to know about how PUA got started, read the book "The Game" by Niel Strauss (aka Style).
Haven't read the book, but the stuff i was saying about goals and failure is straight from PUA websites, a few years ago.
Quote:
And like i've said before, there is a lot of free PUA junk out there but the two keys to success IMHO, it finding the good in that pile of hay (my find was understanding dating and relationships), and live practice interacting with women, and respectfully of course. it's doesn't help at all to be offensive, rude, or a tool.
I just want to make sure that you, and other readers, know that when women speak against PUA, we are talking about the main mass of it -- the manipulation, misogyny, and the way it makes men so unattractive -- not the bits you found that were actually useful. There is a lot of disappointment among women at how PUA as a whole has taken so many appealing, sexy men and made them repulsive. It's really a shame when that happens!
I just want to make sure that you, and other readers, know that when women speak against PUA, we are talking about the main mass of it -- the manipulation, misogyny, and the way it makes men so unattractive -- not the bits you found that were actually useful. There is a lot of disappointment among women at how PUA as a whole has taken so many appealing, sexy men and made them repulsive. It's really a shame when that happens!
yeah, but you are also talking about a lot of college age guys that really havent grown up, shall i say. i'm sure ever frat rat is doing it too.
and of course there are some over 30 guys who have tried it. but no one gets get at it without being trained by one of those masters who teach for a living (iron sharpens iron). guys who try to learn PUA from the free online stuff and websites, are like doing dating bumper cars, which is what you are essentially referring to about women having negative exposure to it. that's why the material is free. because, if i can say, you really can't be taught how to be an attractive man from just reading or doing sarg (crash and burn) on your own. i've seen the difference between ppl who have been course trained and ppl who have been self trained.
also, there is no doubt there are guys who will never improve their social skills and along guys who have bad motives. those guys will continue to exist even without the PUA materials.
P.S.: I would never recommend any PUA course for guys who dont have any dating or relationship experience. That is way too much wishful thinking. it only helps guys with poor or bad skills, not guys with zero skills. and it all goes back to that "how many shrinks does it take to change a lightbulb" joke. if a guy doesn't have any experience, he hasnt reached his epiphany point yet.
The problem with this entire notion is that the person who does this doesn't want any specific woman for any of their wonderful traits. Any woman will do. Plug and play device. Why not just buy a blow up doll?
For some guys yes this is true, the key issue that drives men to settle like this is the time between dates. If a guy can have a new woman lined up within a week or less then he will be more picky, if it takes months to find a woman who recipicates his feelings and he has rejected a years worth of women then as your sitting there by yourself after having masterbated to porn for the last year you think hmm maybe I should not be so picky and at that point almost any woman will do (unless there are some really serious deal breakers). It basicly boils down to sexual compatibiilty and general temperment.
I think my current gf is bummed about my lack of standards right now and I have to figure out a way to very politically correctly tell her all this. She also has not had alot of options either.
I think you are missing the point. For ALMOST ALL women worth having, you render your chances pretty bad by viewing us as plug and play devices whose point is to get so you can stick your wiener in us. If you saw as as individual people, your chances of actually landing a good one go way up.
For some guys yes this is true, the key issue that drives men to settle like this is the time between dates. If a guy can have a new woman lined up within a week or less then he will be more picky, if it takes months to find a woman who recipicates his feelings and he has rejected a years worth of women then as your sitting there by yourself after having masterbated to porn for the last year you think hmm maybe I should not be so picky and at that point almost any woman will do (unless there are some really serious deal breakers).
The impression I have from comments like this one, throughout the forum, is that men are much more relationship-oriented than women.
This surprises me, because it is so different from the stereotype.
But what we seem to hear from many guys is that masturbation just doesn't satisfy them; they need sex with a partner.
Obviously, everyone likes partner sex better . But woman know mostly consider it not only normal but desirable to have many multi-year periods in their lives where they only masturbate. And I have never heard a woman talk about finding a partner with the urgency that so many men here do.
I'm trying to figure out why this would be. Those who are familiar with the research (not just urban myths) know that women need sex as much as men do, in terms of orgasms per week. But we also know that, for most women, finding a male partner who can get them off is pretty unusual, or takes time-consuming training. Which is not an issue in masturbation, not any more frequently for women than for men. So I'm guessing maybe that is why women don't see multiyear solo times as a big deal?
Quote:
I think my current gf is bummed about my lack of standards right now and I have to figure out a way to very politically correctly tell her all this. She also has not had alot of options either.
Well, if you really would prefer someone who is not her, there's no effective way to sugarcoat it. But if you had your choice of every woman in your city, and you really would pick her, even if it's because she understands your struggles (and, as you have said elsewhere, rocks your world in bed) then you could say that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
