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This is sort of a reverse take on the oft-discussed premise that "Women like jerks, not nice guys".
Do you think there is any truth here?
Men seem to complain about women in relationships being bossy & emasculating. They may wonder where all the kind, sweet-natured women are. They blame feminism. They say nowadays, women try to act like men (whatever that means).
But are they choosing these naggy/witchy types of women?
Are they subconsciously drawn to them, initially at least?
Meanwhile, more patient, sweet women are not grabbing their attention & are being overlooked in favor of the more aggressive, confident woman who perhaps boosts their egos while dating, but then harps on them when in a relationship. Or something else?
Of course, in the original premise, we discover Nice Guys aren't so nice. We learn there is a false dichotomy.
So what could be going on with the "Sweet Woman" vs. "Witchy Woman" in terms of what men say they want & who they actually date/marry?
Spoiler
Disclaimer: I'm not stating this as a truth, nor is this necessarily my belief/stance. Just an idea to discuss.
I've noticed to my amazement that many men are indeed like that. I'm not talking about confident women, which is actually a positive, I'm talking about nagging, possessive, insecure, nasty harpies. Many of my fellow men seem to be suckers for that kind of women. Perhaps they have weak personalities and prefer to be led or they have mother issues so they like being treated like children.
I've noticed to my amazement that many men are indeed like that. I'm not talking about confident women, which is actually a positive, I'm talking about nagging, possessive, insecure, nasty harpies. Many of my fellow men seem to be suckers for that kind of women. Perhaps they have weak personalities and prefer to be led or they have mother issues so they like being treated like children.
Every now and then I reflect back at my failures with women, many of them had this type of personality. I used to think that was a sign of assertiveness, or perhaps this is what years of being raised by TV and bad examples from other couples convinced me this was normal behavior.
I was raised to be a bit of a yes-dear type of guy, didn't realize women hated this type of attitude. Now I know better.
Men like Naggy, Witchy Women, not Sweet Women This is sort of a reverse take on the oft-discussed premise that "Women like jerks, not nice guys".
Do you think there is any truth here?
Men seem to complain about women in relationships being bossy & emasculating. They may wonder where all the kind, sweet-natured women are. They blame feminism. They say nowadays, women try to act like men (whatever that means).
But are they choosing these naggy/witchy types of women?
Are they subconsciously drawn to them, initially at least?
]
No. Men do not like naggy, witchy women. The problem is, that women are nice and sweet at the beginning of relationships, then they change, and get mad when we don't change with them (to be like them). THAT is when the naggy/witchyness comes in to play.
Its often the same type of story:
MAN: "She changed, she's just not the same as she used to be"
WOMAN: "He hasn't changed at all. Still exactly like he was before, hasn't grown up at all"
Also, I think women just care a lot more about stuff than we guys do. They nag because they think we don't care about things.
I think men think of witchy women the same way that women think of cocky men, it shows confidence. Only to a point though, a woman can only be so witchy before its just a turn off. I can be attracted to a nice woman to, as long as that is who she is and she is ok with that.
A "sweet" and patient woman would be disinclined to speak her mind, to divulge what irks her… until one day she snaps, and peremptorily leaves. Men prefer directness and unambiguous intimation. When this morphs into nagging, of course men become irked. But the basic idea is to eschew politeness and diffidence in any matter that is important. If a woman genuinely fills annoyed, she should state as much, forthrightly and immediately. To the extent that "sweet" women refrain from doing that, men dislike that.
As the OP intimates, the problem is the same as with "nice guys". "Nice guys" tolerate all sorts of effrontery without retort, until the situation finally becomes intolerable. In contrast, if they offered direct resistance at every step, standing their ground and asserting themselves, they would be more robust in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simtropico
Everyone (men and women) seems to want a Type A who is nice to them but who steps on everyone else.
True?
For me personally, this is very true. We should consider whether sweetness and kindness are universal or specific. Of course I'd like for my girlfriend to be kind to me, but if she's kind to everyone, how am I special? If she is naturally effusive and tender, how is her tenderness towards me any special? Instead, if she is vituperatively brutal to all others, but kind and complaisant with me, then I enjoy a special and unique treatment, and can claim to have stormed the fortress, to have attained something truly special.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJS99
... in general, men seek femininity and softness and nurturing (motherhood) in a woman and sweetness conveys that.
"In general", perhaps. I seek women who find motherhood to be physically and emotionally repulsive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laychick
he isn't really a quality man either (is divorced, no kids and has been single for years) ....
So if this guy wasn't divorced, or if he had children, or if he remarried post-divorce, then he would be a "quality man"? Why conflate personal misfortune with lack of quality?
So if this guy wasn't divorced, or if he had children, or if he remarried post-divorce, then he would be a "quality man"? Why conflate personal misfortune with lack of quality?
He used to be on drugs before and has gotten fire from several jobs a bunch of times. He can go on for long periods doing nothing and it's his mother that has to call my mother in order to find him a job. His marriage ended because he admitted to me that he would cheat a bunch of times with the excuse of his needs not being met. Definitely not quality man.
This much is definitely true, to at least some extent.
It's the same thing with good men that get overlooked. Women who come across as naggy or witchy as OP put it are the most visible because they are usually the loudest and/or most direct in terms of asserting their opinion so they are the most visible. The same thing with "nice girls" meaning the ones that will bend over backwards and do absolutely anything to make sure their partner's happiness is before their own.
Truly men don't want either of those women but a "good women" who is well-balanced, independent but also connected to the relationship. The reason why guys end up with those women and stay with them is because they've missed all of the red flags along the way. Naggy, witchy women aren't good women they are just convenient for some guys who consider being in a relationship with someone is better than being alone.
No. Men do not like naggy, witchy women. The problem is, that women are nice and sweet at the beginning of relationships, then they change, and get mad when we don't change with them (to be like them). THAT is when the naggy/witchyness comes in to play.
Its often the same type of story:
MAN: "She changed, she's just not the same as she used to be"
WOMAN: "He hasn't changed at all. Still exactly like he was before, hasn't grown up at all"
Also, I think women just care a lot more about stuff than we guys do. They nag because they think we don't care about things.
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