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I understand you were talking about younger women and older men, as was I. I'm 43, you seem to say that I should be equal, social value wise, as a women 28-33. I have no idea what in the world I would have in common with a 28 yo. At all. I just asked you to explain it further....
This is rather baffling to me. If hypothetically I were to partner with a woman 15 years my junior, then indeed we'd be at different points in our respective careers and so forth. I'd be thinking about early retirement, and she'd be thinking about her first promotion at work. But to say that we'd have nothing in common? I have plenty in common with 12-year-old girls, and 102-year-old great-great-grandmothers. Depending on their upbringing and their natural curiosity, we might have read some of the same books. We might have similar views on religion, philosophy, current events and the like – or at least intriguing differences, prompting good discussion.
I fail to see how sub-generational cohorts travel through life's stages as one band, with mutually intersecting narrative that's distinct from that of the immediately older or younger cohort. Maybe this holds in terms of popular music, movies or TV shows. But the music to which I listen has not been "popular" for 130 years. The person in our office with whom I have the most in common, as regards tastes and values and worldview, is 81 years old. Does this mean that I should be looking for dates in the nursing-home?
I understand how there's something vaguely gauche and provocative about a man in his mid-40s dating a woman in her late-20s. But it's not a question of not having things in common.
I am the younger woman. I'm with him because of the sex. That's what I usually say when asked "how the hell did he get you?".
Actually, he is a great guy. I am so glad I took the chance and went on that first date with him.
I really only think about the age difference when I get crap from women his age. Some of the comments, just like some here, make me assume they are ex wives, of men his age.
Nice little passive-aggressive dig about ex-wives of older men.
Are you under the impression that YOU'RE not going to get older? Do you not think that women younger than you will one day allude to you and/or other women your age in the same dismissive tone you use?
Some of us have been the younger woman, too. More than once. In fact, some of us MARRIED the older guy. Some of us raised kids with him (and we still look pretty darn good). And some of us - ya better sit down for what I'm about to tell you - LEFT him.
Yep. That's right. Some of us felt stifled by the older guy and grew weary of his controlling ways. No, not all of them are like that with their younger women. But many of them are. And that's PRECISELY why they're with significantly younger women.
Oh, I didn't see it like that back then. Nope. I was as sure of things as you are. You remind me a little of me (just a little, mind you). But, you see, the older guys have all the same shortcomings that guys your own age do. They're just hoping you won't figure that out.
If you're smart, and I think you are, you'll give more credence to some of that "crap" women your guy's age say to you. Believe it or not, it isn't all jealousy or sour grapes, like you seem to believe it is. SOME of it is called Life Experience.
Not all those women want to scratch your eyes out. Some of them want just want to help you out a little. Relax.
re-read my post hommie, i was talking about younger women and older men. i get it that your one of those pro-feminist men, so no surprise you won't agree with some of my thoughts on culture, particularly male identity, masculinity and men mentoring. but try this as food for thought. SMV is now being widely discussed on the web too.
The problem with your chart is that it's wrong. I could accept an argument that it might be true for an individual on average. The the average woman is at her best most desireable at 23-years-old (more so than when she was 18 or more so than when she is 40) and a man is when he's 36-years-old (more so than when he was 18 and more so than when he is 40). But that's all things being equal with one person. You can't compare all women and men. For example, an 23-year-old obese woman with an acne scarred face isn't more desirable than a 35-year-old fitness model. And a 36-year-old socially awkward man isn't more desirable than a 25-year-old man of the world who is good with people. And some people age differently. Some people are late bloomers while others age prematurely.
I also think the misleading thing about the chart for men is that it falsely tells people that age will magically be more desirable. It doesn't work that way. If you are a socially awkward person who can't relate to women ... it doesn't matter what your age is. If you are a young man who has bad luck with woman because of social awkwardness, it wont' suddenly "get better" because you get older. It just means you are older. The only thing that *might* change is you have more money and attract shallow woman who are gold diggers.
Same goes for women, if you are friendly, outgoing woman of substance and such and popular with men at 23, you won't suddenly get "no attention" at 36 or whatever. The only difference is, when you are younger, you *might* just attract shallow men who are only interested in youth and dumping you for the next newer woman.
My point is. Young men, don't sit around waiting to get older thinking things magically change because someone made up a chart on the internet. And young women, don't feel pressured into settling just because some made-up chart on the internet tells you too.
Some of us felt stifled by the older guy and grew weary of his controlling ways. No, not all of them are like that with their younger women. But many of them are. And that's PRECISELY why they're with significantly younger women.
As a middle-aged child-free man, reluctantly I must admit to the truth of the above. While I have not the least desire to parent children, I do (or did) crave a feeling of paternal dominance, where my wife is as it were my surrogate child, whom I shepherd through life, making the critical decisions for her, and preparing her to thrive as a fully-fledged adult upon my death.
Something like this actually happened with my ex-wife. Though she was only one year younger than me, by life-experience she was many years behind, and she was entirely satisfied - for a while! - to be treated with gingerly didactic ministration. I steered her in going back to college, essentially helicopter-parenting her all through college. This went on for years, and adding to the perversity, her parents were inestimably grateful to me for my approach, treating me not as their son-in-law, but as something like their partner in raising their daughter. Then one day she decided that "to assert herself as a woman", she need to have a child, after all. Within months, we divorced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
I also think the misleading thing about the chart for men is that it falsely tells people that age will magically be more desirable. It doesn't work that way. If you are a socially awkward person who can't relate to women ... it doesn't matter what your age is. If you are a young man who has bad luck with woman because of social awkwardness, it wont' suddenly "get better" because you get older. It just means you are older. The only thing that *might* change is you have more money and attract shallow woman who are gold diggers.
... Young men, don't sit around waiting to get older thinking things magically change because someone made up a chart on the internet. And young women, don't feel pressured into settling just because some made-up chart on the internet tells you too.
Excellent point! In our mythical past, when men were evaluated mostly for their prospects as providers, and women for their prospects as brood-mares, indeed a man who climbed from awkward youth to middle-aged affluence and stability would have been a prized commodity. It was often even the case that a man couldn't marry until he inherited his father's estate! This is no longer true. A wispy, sullen, awkward teenage nerd who goes on to attain an excellent education, succeeds in business, lifts weights, practices public-speaking and the like, won't necessarily transform himself from woefully undesirable to throbbing paragon of masculinity.
It's certainly good to improve ourselves, to advance our educations and so forth, to save for retirement and to learn about investment. All laudable pursuits! But it's false to assert that they somehow enhance a male's mating-value! Why is this false? Because, really, no such thing exists anymore. The OP's "graph" is fallacious not because it lack citations or quantification, but because the very notion that it purports to describe is at most a grossly pernicious exaggeration, and in less generous terms, an outright fraud.
Evolutionary (and later, psychology) studies since Darwin have concluded over and over again that, adaptively, males are first and foremost sexually attracted to youth and beauty as indicators of potential reproductivity, and females are first and foremost sexually attracted to whatever type of stability most ensures to them that a man is capable of being a successful provider of resources in the event of future offspring. And these universal preferences hold true regardless of whether or not the people in question even consciously have a desire to reproduce. They're just there, as adaptive traits.
Not exactly groundbreaking stuff, this has been studied for eons.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant
The person in our office with whom I have the most in common, as regards tastes and values and worldview, is 81 years old. Does this mean that I should be looking for dates in the nursing-home?
This is rather baffling to me. If hypothetically I were to partner with a woman 15 years my junior, then indeed we'd be at different points in our respective careers and so forth. I'd be thinking about early retirement, and she'd be thinking about her first promotion at work. But to say that we'd have nothing in common? I have plenty in common with 12-year-old girls, and 102-year-old great-great-grandmothers. Depending on their upbringing and their natural curiosity, we might have read some of the same books. We might have similar views on religion, philosophy, current events and the like – or at least intriguing differences, prompting good discussion.
I fail to see how sub-generational cohorts travel through life's stages as one band, with mutually intersecting narrative that's distinct from that of the immediately older or younger cohort. Maybe this holds in terms of popular music, movies or TV shows. But the music to which I listen has not been "popular" for 130 years. The person in our office with whom I have the most in common, as regards tastes and values and worldview, is 81 years old. Does this mean that I should be looking for dates in the nursing-home?
I understand how there's something vaguely gauche and provocative about a man in his mid-40s dating a woman in her late-20s. But it's not a question of not having things in common.
I've got to agree with timber. Its true that one would have some things in common with someone of a much younger or older age for occasional discussions and light banter but its quite a different story to have a relationship in which you spend most of your personal time with that person.
I'm not sure how much time you have spent around 12 yr. olds. I can go 15-20 minutes with the average 12 yr. old before I want to scream and pull my hair out. Even the 18-21 range is challenging for the most part. Once we get to a 15-10 year age difference interests and experiences become much more similar.
I've got to agree with timber. Its true that one would have some things in common with someone of a much younger or older age for occasional discussions and light banter but its quite a different story to have a relationship in which you spend most of your personal time with that person.
I'm not sure how much time you have spent around 12 yr. olds. I can go 15-20 minutes with the average 12 yr. old before I want to scream and pull my hair out. Even the 18-21 range is challenging for the most part. Once we get to a 15-10 year age difference interests and experiences become much more similar.
I think the older one gets, the less important the age gap is because "stages" of life are shorter in the beginning and longer at the end of life. I think you see this played out in marriage statistics where most people who marry (first marriages) are within a few years of each other (less than 5 years) and very few people marry with a 10+ year age gap. Don't believe me, it's in the US Census data.
A 10 year difference with a person in his or her early 20s is a big deal. The difference between a 15-year-old and a 20-year old is a big deal too! But when a person is 60 years old, as young as 50 or as old as 70 isn't such a leap and five years is nothing really. Although there might be trouble if one person is still working and the other is looking at retirement (when one partner retires, it can have a big impact on a relationship). I know when I am ready to retire, I don't want my partner holding me down from dreams of travel and such before my body give out because my partner is still working and only gets 14 vacation days a year or whatever. Or I don't want to spend my retirement years sitting alone in a house waiting for the spouse to come home from work, exhausted. Although I suppose it might work for a person that's willing to squirrel away enough money to support his spouse's early retirement.
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