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Ensuring your adult child has an additional car payment of $400 a month isn't putting her first
Secondly, you put your children first by modeling a healthy relationship. Not hanging up or making excuses when your spouse puts your child first telling you no, don't get the car. That is what he was saying and she got that free and clear. No one co-signs for a loan for the kids for a car that they cannot afford and to boot, lets her keep the brand new car and not just give the one they already own to her.
This lady is disrespecting her husband. My husband handles our finances but he would never do such against my wishes with our son. Biological or not.
This mother is not being a good mother, period. And she's far from being a decent wife, this is bad. Not saying she hasn't done well in other areas but this went way too far.
I wasn't responding to the OP but to a response to the OP which I quoted.
You are right, this is even better than cosigning. If the deed is in her mother's name then really it is the mother who owns the car and if the daughter defaults it is between mother and daughter. Will it affect the husband? Maybe a little as you say with debt-to-income ratio. But emotionally? It should not if the mother has the money to make the payments. Maybe I would not have gotten a brand new car either. Maybe I would have gotten a "certified pre-owned" with a good warranty at a smaller price.
I would like to say I hope these two can work their differences out. However I will say that it would not surprise me if his wife does not join him on the new coast. It seems she has developed a mindset that it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission and that is often a death knell in a marriage, mainly because someone in a healthy marriage does not feel those are her (or his) choices to begin with. When we talk about a mother and her children, and now grandchildren, as somebody else said, most of the time a woman will choose what she sees as their safety and security over her husband's comfort and advice. Personally, I do not think that is such a bad way to go in this particular situation.
Yes, my wife definitely makes enough money to make the car note if my daughter defaults. That is not the point at all and no even a $400 month payment is really not going to affect us.
And I'll reiterate, the money is not the point!
One reply mentioned that my wife consulted me. She did not.
I found out by accident that she was at the dealership, and I called her. I asked her what she was doing she was honest with me. If I had not called her however, I would not have known what she was doing. When I found out what she was doing I told her that in accordance with many conversations we've had, and the Dave Ramsey plan that we have followed for years together, co-signing or outright buying a car for someone else and handing them the keys unless you're independently wealthy, is stupid and ill-advised by anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
Then again, like someone mentioned, she did take my advice and didn't co-sign, she purchased the car in her name instead.
And this is the problem, not that we can't afford it, that she concealed the purchase from me because she knew I would have a problem with it.
That infuriates me, more than anything else that's ever happened in our marriage. She might as well have cheated on me physically, they are both just as dishonest. Is one more unforgivable than the other? Yes, physically cheating is a whole nother level, but when she thinks she did nothing wrong and indicated she'd do it again, that really ratchets it up..
We have our ups and downs like any marriage, but I would never, ever purchase a $20,000 item without discussing it with her, PERIOD! The biggest purchase I made recently, was a $1000 DSLR camera body. You know what I did? I called her and told her what I'd like to do, and asked her if she had any reason why I shouldn't, budget wise or otherwise. She didn't, and I proceeded and that's what married people that share a budget do!
For her to do that, to make a major purchase decision, it shows a total lack of respect for me.
I don't know what else to say, other than one voice in my head is telling me to let it go for the sake of a 20 year marriage that was generally pretty good for the most part. I, my wife and my children have a lot to lose if this is it was the catalyst to a divorce. I completely recognize that, and sometimes think this seems so trivial to be so upset about.
Then I have another voice that chimes in and tells me why would you stay with her when she did this behind your back, doesn't I think she did anything wrong, didn't really apologize for it and assure me that it would never happen again, and instead said she'd help her daughter again if she had to? I don't even have to read into that very much to realize what she said was, that she'd go against my wishes again behind my back for her daughter. How can I then respect her, believe we are a team , believe she has our marriage's best interests at heart and will have my back when I need her?
Yes, my wife definitely makes enough money to make the car note if my daughter defaults. That is not the point at all and no even a $400 month payment is really not going to affect us.
And I'll reiterate, the money is not the point!
One reply mentioned that my wife consulted me. She did not.
I found out by accident that she was at the dealership, and I called her. I asked her what she was doing she was honest with me. If I had not called her however, I would not have known what she was doing. When I found out what she was doing I told her that in accordance with many conversations we've had, and the Dave Ramsey plan that we have followed for years together, co-signing or outright buying a car for someone else and handing them the keys unless you're independently wealthy, is stupid and ill-advised by anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
Then again, like someone mentioned, she did take my advice and didn't co-sign, she purchased the car in her name instead.
And this is the problem, not that we can't afford it, that she concealed the purchase from me because she knew I would have a problem with it.
That infuriates me, more than anything else that's ever happened in our marriage. She might as well have cheated on me physically, they are both just as dishonest. Is one more unforgivable than the other? Yes, physically cheating is a whole nother level, but when she thinks she did nothing wrong and indicated she'd do it again, that really ratchets it up..
We have our ups and downs like any marriage, but I would never, ever purchase a $20,000 item without discussing it with her, PERIOD! The biggest purchase I made recently, was a $1000 DSLR camera body. You know what I did? I called her and told her what I'd like to do, and asked her if she had any reason why I shouldn't, budget wise or otherwise. She didn't, and I proceeded and that's what married people that share a budget do!
For her to do that, to make a major purchase decision, it shows a total lack of respect for me.
I don't know what else to say, other than one voice in my head is telling me to let it go for the sake of a 20 year marriage that was generally pretty good for the most part. I, my wife and my children have a lot to lose if this is it was the catalyst to a divorce. I completely recognize that, and sometimes think this seems so trivial to be so upset about.
Then I have another voice that chimes in and tells me why would you stay with her when she did this behind your back, doesn't I think she did anything wrong, didn't really apologize for it and assure me that it would never happen again, and instead said she'd help her daughter again if she had to? I don't even have to read into that very much to realize what she said was, that she'd go against my wishes again behind my back for her daughter. How can I then respect her, believe we are a team , believe she has our marriage's best interests at heart and will have my back when I need her?
The bolded and SHE KNOWS IT!
Hope that it doesn't multiply to other purchases and or other aspects of trying to defy you.
It depends on how long and or far you want to take this.
She's reacting like the woman that has nothing to lose to defy you as per how the divorce laws are written against you and again SHE KNOWS THIS!
It's one thing if she consulted you and you both came out to the same decision, but from your initial post I understand this not to be true.
Like a poster said that a $6K car (I believe that was the $ amount) would be good enough but instead "my husband be I'm doing what I want and purchase a $20K car because the worst that can happen is that in the end nothing terrible happens and he indirectly helps pay for it if my daughter defaults or he divorces me = I win both times".
To some of the women reading this think this potentially doesn't cross an "x" woman's mind in a similar marriage scenario, think again.
Last edited by atgss; 05-14-2017 at 02:51 PM..
Reason: edited a sentence
I see where you may be speaking to me because I wrote a lot yesterday and because I pointed out what so many here seem to have missed: The OP's bossy tone. Sometimes when people point out bossiness, other people give knee-jerk responses without regard for the fact that we are dealing with humans here and with humans HOW you say something is just as important as what you say. The trouble is that if a bossy tone comes out on a website like this, I can promise you it is much much worse in person.
You seem to have missed his tone too. Maybe you do not see it because you are not a woman dealing with ingrained presumption and entitlement of a certain percentage of American men of a certain age and generation and because it is not always overt. (A woman of a younger generation would be less likely to marry such a man or if she did she would have left him by now.)
I speak from a place of experience, yes, but it is neither cognitive nor confirmation bias and I do not think you know what those terms truly mean for you to say this IF you are directing your comments toward me. Are you?
Regardless this is something that comes up in my work. I see many times where middle-aged men of the "Baby Boomer" generation "advise" their wives and grown children and then become angry when their "advice" is not taken. In their anger and hurt pride they seek more to punish rather than try to find a solution if they see a new problem and it is like pulling a tooth to get them to consider that there may be reasons why it seems to them that "no one listens to them anymore." In my case where I help it involves chronic illness on top of everything else, but the general attitude is the same, that of long-term dominance that is not always overt. It is clear that this man is no stranger to manipulation to try to get his wife to do what he wants. The "silent treatment" is manipulation. Likewise he said he had to "squeeze an apology" from her. How do you "squeeze an apology" from somebody? You needle, nag, browbeat, and cajole. My educated guess is that her apology was more to get him to stop talking, and he astutely picked up on it because he complained that it didn't feel sincere.
His behavior toward his daughter is also manipulative. He did what no parent should ever do, which is try to involve their children in their marital problems. Worse, he goes even further and seeks to blame her for it. What he said to her amounts to "It's your fault your mother did this and now I have this problem in my marriage to your mother." No no no no no, that is NEVER okay. His problem is with his WIFE and her decision to buy a car that way for her daughter in a way he disagreed with, not WITH his daughter. Misplaced blame is another big "red flag" of manipulation. This appears to be a man who is unwilling to look at his own behavior and own his part in all of this. He wants to blame everyone else.
As for consulting him, she did. He told her not to cosign. There does come a point where if you tell someone not to do one thing you do not get to complain too much when they do another. Furthermore it appears that HE did not think all of this through when he told her not to cosign. As I said earlier, if his wife has her own income then if the daughter defaults his WIFE pays the car payment. Instead this man is more interested in punishing his daughter for making lifestyle choices "against his advice" and he, like it seems you, is willing to see the grandchildren be in a situation with no car or with a car that may leave them stranded somewhere if it means teaching his daughter some kind of "lesson." Then he wonders why his daughter gets angry at him?
There are no "snowflakes" here. There are only people who can see pattern and tone and people who seem to be annoyed that a man's poor tone is being seen and addressed.
Haven't' read a word you've typed in this forum and don't recognize your screen name either, and yeah, there are loads of snowflakes here.
I see where you may be speaking to me because I wrote a lot yesterday and because I pointed out what so many here seem to have missed: The OP's bossy tone. Sometimes when people point out bossiness, other people give knee-jerk responses without regard for the fact that we are dealing with humans here and with humans HOW you say something is just as important as what you say. The trouble is that if a bossy tone comes out on a website like this, I can promise you it is much much worse in person.
You seem to have missed his tone too. Maybe you do not see it because you are not a woman dealing with ingrained presumption and entitlement of a certain percentage of American men of a certain age and generation and because it is not always overt. (A woman of a younger generation would be less likely to marry such a man or if she did she would have left him by now.)
I speak from a place of experience, yes, but it is neither cognitive nor confirmation bias and I do not think you know what those terms truly mean for you to say this IF you are directing your comments toward me. Are you?
Regardless this is something that comes up in my work. I see many times where middle-aged men of the "Baby Boomer" generation "advise" their wives and grown children and then become angry when their "advice" is not taken. In their anger and hurt pride they seek more to punish rather than try to find a solution if they see a new problem and it is like pulling a tooth to get them to consider that there may be reasons why it seems to them that "no one listens to them anymore." In my case where I help it involves chronic illness on top of everything else, but the general attitude is the same, that of long-term dominance that is not always overt. It is clear that this man is no stranger to manipulation to try to get his wife to do what he wants. The "silent treatment" is manipulation. Likewise he said he had to "squeeze an apology" from her. How do you "squeeze an apology" from somebody? You needle, nag, browbeat, and cajole. My educated guess is that her apology was more to get him to stop talking, and he astutely picked up on it because he complained that it didn't feel sincere.
His behavior toward his daughter is also manipulative. He did what no parent should ever do, which is try to involve their children in their marital problems. Worse, he goes even further and seeks to blame her for it. What he said to her amounts to "It's your fault your mother did this and now I have this problem in my marriage to your mother." No no no no no, that is NEVER okay. His problem is with his WIFE and her decision to buy a car that way for her daughter in a way he disagreed with, not WITH his daughter. Misplaced blame is another big "red flag" of manipulation. This appears to be a man who is unwilling to look at his own behavior and own his part in all of this. He wants to blame everyone else.
As for consulting him, she did. He told her not to cosign. There does come a point where if you tell someone not to do one thing you do not get to complain too much when they do another. Furthermore it appears that HE did not think all of this through when he told her not to cosign. As I said earlier, if his wife has her own income then if the daughter defaults his WIFE pays the car payment. Instead this man is more interested in punishing his daughter for making lifestyle choices "against his advice" and he, like it seems you, is willing to see the grandchildren be in a situation with no car or with a car that may leave them stranded somewhere if it means teaching his daughter some kind of "lesson." Then he wonders why his daughter gets angry at him?
There are no "snowflakes" here. There are only people who can see pattern and tone and people who seem to be annoyed that a man's poor tone is being seen and addressed.
Yes, my wife definitely makes enough money to make the car note if my daughter defaults. That is not the point at all and no even a $400 month payment is really not going to affect us.
And I'll reiterate, the money is not the point!
One reply mentioned that my wife consulted me. She did not.
I found out by accident that she was at the dealership, and I called her. I asked her what she was doing she was honest with me. If I had not called her however, I would not have known what she was doing. When I found out what she was doing I told her that in accordance with many conversations we've had, and the Dave Ramsey plan that we have followed for years together, co-signing or outright buying a car for someone else and handing them the keys unless you're independently wealthy, is stupid and ill-advised by anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
Then again, like someone mentioned, she did take my advice and didn't co-sign, she purchased the car in her name instead.
And this is the problem, not that we can't afford it, that she concealed the purchase from me because she knew I would have a problem with it.
That infuriates me, more than anything else that's ever happened in our marriage. She might as well have cheated on me physically, they are both just as dishonest. Is one more unforgivable than the other? Yes, physically cheating is a whole nother level, but when she thinks she did nothing wrong and indicated she'd do it again, that really ratchets it up..
We have our ups and downs like any marriage, but I would never, ever purchase a $20,000 item without discussing it with her, PERIOD! The biggest purchase I made recently, was a $1000 DSLR camera body. You know what I did? I called her and told her what I'd like to do, and asked her if she had any reason why I shouldn't, budget wise or otherwise. She didn't, and I proceeded and that's what married people that share a budget do!
For her to do that, to make a major purchase decision, it shows a total lack of respect for me.
I don't know what else to say, other than one voice in my head is telling me to let it go for the sake of a 20 year marriage that was generally pretty good for the most part. I, my wife and my children have a lot to lose if this is it was the catalyst to a divorce. I completely recognize that, and sometimes think this seems so trivial to be so upset about.
Then I have another voice that chimes in and tells me why would you stay with her when she did this behind your back, doesn't I think she did anything wrong, didn't really apologize for it and assure me that it would never happen again, and instead said she'd help her daughter again if she had to? I don't even have to read into that very much to realize what she said was, that she'd go against my wishes again behind my back for her daughter. How can I then respect her, believe we are a team , believe she has our marriage's best interests at heart and will have my back when I need her?
During your 20 year marriage have you ever made a decision that your wife disagreed with?
During your 20 year marriage have you ever made a decision that your wife disagreed with?
I'm sure but can't think of any examples where we disagreed and she was adamant about something.. We've had minimal fights over the years, usually over differences in our raising of the kids. Never any knockdown drag outs, or anything really really bad.
I hope you can talk through it and perhaps come to an understanding and acceptance. And on her part, an acknowledgement of your feelings of disrespect and a promise to not repeat it. Good luck!
For her to do that, to make a major purchase decision, it shows a total lack of respect for me.
I don't know what else to say, other than one voice in my head is telling me to let it go for the sake of a 20 year marriage that was generally pretty good for the most part. I, my wife and my children have a lot to lose if this is it was the catalyst to a divorce. I completely recognize that, and sometimes think this seems so trivial to be so upset about.
Then I have another voice that chimes in and tells me why would you stay with her when she did this behind your back, doesn't I think she did anything wrong, didn't really apologize for it and assure me that it would never happen again, and instead said she'd help her daughter again if she had to? I don't even have to read into that very much to realize what she said was, that she'd go against my wishes again behind my back for her daughter. How can I then respect her, believe we are a team , believe she has our marriage's best interests at heart and will have my back when I need her?
I understand why you are upset. I have said that from my first response. But I can't imagine this being something worth ending 20-year marriage that has been mostly good. I feel like you're approaching this in the wrong way. You basically want your wife to choose between you and her daughter. That's really not fair and is setting her up to choose the daughter every time, frankly.
I find it interesting that you say that you only referred to your stepdaughters as such for reference and that you have always considered them your own. However, all throughout this post, you have referred to her as "her daughter."
The truth is that you were never going to be okay with your wife helping your daughter to get a car, unless she did what you wanted her to do, which was give her one of the older cars. Since you have said that your wife could comfortably make the payments, and since her daughter is supposed to be making the payments, perhaps your wife would have communicated with you more if she knew she would have had more options. In her eyes, she may have known that you were going to put your foot down and make it your way or no way. She might have felt that you would never understand her reasoning.
There's also the possibility that she went with the daughter just to look into it, to get an idea of the daughter's existing trade-in value and the price of cars that she might potentially be interested in and that she hadn't originally planned on actually going through with it right away. Perhaps the daughter's pleading eyes and promises that she would make the payments, the cute little grandkids and the salesman's pushing were enough to send her over the edge. Car salesmen can be mighty pushy, after all.
Going on 35 years or marriage and can say trust is the glue that holds it all together. I'm a very independent woman, yet I do understand I'm married and accountable to my spouse and he likewise to me! We love our babies 27, 30 and 31 yet we both understand we need to check with each other before making major purchases or helping our grown adult children out. Our eldest daughter married last year, the husband and I talk first about what and how much we felt to give before we announced it! We are a team and to be very honest I'd never have done what his wife did, nor has my husband because we understand were a unit outside are adult children, together we figure out what's best for us in the long run.
Switchback the fact your wife went behind your back clearly say your not a team, otherwise she never done this, she doesn't have your back but she was honest enough to admit she do it again if need be. So at this point you really need to cover your own butt and that means opening a separate bank accounts, still this will not excuse or dismiss you from your wife liabilities is she defaults on loans, etc! Peace Out!
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I'm doing what I want and purchase a $20K car because the worst that can happen is that in the end nothing terrible happens and he indirectly helps pay for it if my daughter defaults or he divorces me = I win both times".
