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We've gotten to a stupid place in society and the snowflakes are getting way way too much attention.
Again, common sense, you don't just go and drop 20k without the spouse being fully onboard and together on it.
I one time went out and made a spontaneous spur of the moment purchase of a TV, this was twenty plus years ago. Mrs. Chow gave me a very minor version of this face and ever since then I don't buy stuff without talking to her about it. I mean a TV is a much more minor thing, but back then we were broke and didn't have much money, so it was essentially a "large" purchase for us then.
I haven't done anything without her involvement since then.
That's what mature adults do, they consult with their spouse on big ticket items. Again, I have to reiterate big ticket stuff. I have my own slush fund and I buy whatever I want when I want and same goes with her.
I don't go out and buy 20k cars though, that is a different thing.
This guy's wife has got all kinds of wrong going on, taking him at face value.
The kids need to be cut off, they need to grew the heck up and the two spouses need to jointly tell them to grow up already and cut them off.
Some of the responses in this thread are typical of cognitive bias and confirmation bias and loads and loads of other baggage coming out. The OP framed some of his comments in a way that sorta brought out the baggage to a degree but the core content of his arguments is sound.
You don't spend large amounts of money without agreement. You don't throw large amounts of money in a sinkhole, which the daughter appears to be in terms of personal responsibility.
Last edited by Chowhound; 05-13-2017 at 04:55 PM..
"Cutting the kids off" would be a lot easier if there were no grand babies involved. I know that I would have a difficult time not stepping in for their sake. I mean, I am all for allowing grown children to deal with the consequences of their decisions, but the babies are the ones who are paying the price. That would be really hard for me to stand back and do nothing.
"Cutting the kids off" would be a lot easier if there were no grand babies involved. I know that I would have a difficult time not stepping in for their sake. I mean, I am all for allowing grown children to deal with the consequences of their decisions, but the babies are the ones who are paying the price. That would be really hard for me to stand back and do nothing.
I tried to rep ya. It's an understandable viewpoint.
At this point, there's no indication that the daughter is not going to make the payments. I believe that the OP said somewhere in this thread that she's actually paying most of her bills right now except for a couple, so it's not like she's hanging onto mom and stepdad to pay the bills.
I think the idea of repossessing the car is a good one if the daughter doesn't pay. Give her a chance to pay for the car now and if she doesn't, she can get the paid off car while your wife gets the new car. Sit down with your wife and decide how many chances she gets to miss a payment before you repossess it, since you obviously don't want your credit affected by your stepdaughter's inability to pay. The car is purchased now, so there is not much you can do about that, but there is no one saying the stepdaughter has to keep the car if she misses repeated payments.
"Cutting the kids off" would be a lot easier if there were no grand babies involved. I know that I would have a difficult time not stepping in for their sake. I mean, I am all for allowing grown children to deal with the consequences of their decisions, but the babies are the ones who are paying the price. That would be really hard for me to stand back and do nothing.
Which is why I have to wonder if this was his wife's thought process at the time she bought the car. I'm not saying she's not in the wrong for failing to consult her husband, just that having young grandbabies may be a factor here.
^ Yes, that is what some people are forgetting. The wife probably only did it because she is counting on her daughter to make the payments, so she might not think it's a big deal or really understand why her husband sees that it's a big deal.
Sure, it does affect their debt-to-income ratio some, which I can see as being a problem with buying a home and replacing the two cars. Then again, if your other ducks are in a row (excellent credit score, sufficient income), you should still be alright.
Also, she DID follow your advice of not co-signing...which was probably smart. I've seen financial advice before that said that if you want to help your child get a car or similar, to get it in your name rather than co-signing. Then, you can make sure that the payments are on time and avoid destroying your credit, then you can take it up with your daughter later. You're going to be financially responsible for the loan either way, so better to make sure the bills are coming your way and not hers, where they might be put off without you knowing about it at first.
Here's an option, OP...if the daughter is bad with money, consider having your wife ask her to make partial payments each payday? For example, if she gets paid weekly, maybe she can pay $100 a week instead of $400 a month, in one lump payment. If she's bad with budgeting, this might make it easier for her to stay on top of it. Plus, if she "misses" a "payment" and you and your wife have to make it up, you're talking $100 and not $400.
We've gotten to a stupid place in society and the snowflakes are getting way way too much attention.
Again, common sense, you don't just go and drop 20k without the spouse being fully onboard and together on it.
I one time went out and made a spontaneous spur of the moment purchase of a TV, this was twenty plus years ago. Mrs. Chow gave me a very minor version of this face and ever since then I don't buy stuff without talking to her about it. I mean a TV is a much more minor thing, but back then we were broke and didn't have much money, so it was essentially a "large" purchase for us then.
I haven't done anything without her involvement since then.
That's what mature adults do, they consult with their spouse on big ticket items. Again, I have to reiterate big ticket stuff. I have my own slush fund and I buy whatever I want when I want and same goes with her.
I don't go out and buy 20k cars though, that is a different thing.
This guy's wife has got all kinds of wrong going on, taking him at face value.
The kids need to be cut off, they need to grew the heck up and the two spouses need to jointly tell them to grow up already and cut them off.
Some of the responses in this thread are typical of cognitive bias and confirmation bias and loads and loads of other baggage coming out. The OP framed some of his comments in a way that sorta brought out the baggage to a degree but the core content of his arguments is sound.
You don't spend large amounts of money without agreement. You don't throw large amounts of money in a sinkhole, which the daughter appears to be in terms of personal responsibility.
I see where you may be speaking to me because I wrote a lot yesterday and because I pointed out what so many here seem to have missed: The OP's bossy tone. Sometimes when people point out bossiness, other people give knee-jerk responses without regard for the fact that we are dealing with humans here and with humans HOW you say something is just as important as what you say. The trouble is that if a bossy tone comes out on a website like this, I can promise you it is much much worse in person.
You seem to have missed his tone too. Maybe you do not see it because you are not a woman dealing with ingrained presumption and entitlement of a certain percentage of American men of a certain age and generation and because it is not always overt. (A woman of a younger generation would be less likely to marry such a man or if she did she would have left him by now.)
I speak from a place of experience, yes, but it is neither cognitive nor confirmation bias and I do not think you know what those terms truly mean for you to say this IF you are directing your comments toward me. Are you?
Regardless this is something that comes up in my work. I see many times where middle-aged men of the "Baby Boomer" generation "advise" their wives and grown children and then become angry when their "advice" is not taken. In their anger and hurt pride they seek more to punish rather than try to find a solution if they see a new problem and it is like pulling a tooth to get them to consider that there may be reasons why it seems to them that "no one listens to them anymore." In my case where I help it involves chronic illness on top of everything else, but the general attitude is the same, that of long-term dominance that is not always overt. It is clear that this man is no stranger to manipulation to try to get his wife to do what he wants. The "silent treatment" is manipulation. Likewise he said he had to "squeeze an apology" from her. How do you "squeeze an apology" from somebody? You needle, nag, browbeat, and cajole. My educated guess is that her apology was more to get him to stop talking, and he astutely picked up on it because he complained that it didn't feel sincere.
His behavior toward his daughter is also manipulative. He did what no parent should ever do, which is try to involve their children in their marital problems. Worse, he goes even further and seeks to blame her for it. What he said to her amounts to "It's your fault your mother did this and now I have this problem in my marriage to your mother." No no no no no, that is NEVER okay. His problem is with his WIFE and her decision to buy a car that way for her daughter in a way he disagreed with, not WITH his daughter. Misplaced blame is another big "red flag" of manipulation. This appears to be a man who is unwilling to look at his own behavior and own his part in all of this. He wants to blame everyone else.
As for consulting him, she did. He told her not to cosign. There does come a point where if you tell someone not to do one thing you do not get to complain too much when they do another. Furthermore it appears that HE did not think all of this through when he told her not to cosign. As I said earlier, if his wife has her own income then if the daughter defaults his WIFE pays the car payment. Instead this man is more interested in punishing his daughter for making lifestyle choices "against his advice" and he, like it seems you, is willing to see the grandchildren be in a situation with no car or with a car that may leave them stranded somewhere if it means teaching his daughter some kind of "lesson." Then he wonders why his daughter gets angry at him?
There are no "snowflakes" here. There are only people who can see pattern and tone and people who seem to be annoyed that a man's poor tone is being seen and addressed.
^ Yes, that is what some people are forgetting. The wife probably only did it because she is counting on her daughter to make the payments, so she might not think it's a big deal or really understand why her husband sees that it's a big deal.
Sure, it does affect their debt-to-income ratio some, which I can see as being a problem with buying a home and replacing the two cars. Then again, if your other ducks are in a row (excellent credit score, sufficient income), you should still be alright.
Also, she DID follow your advice of not co-signing...which was probably smart. I've seen financial advice before that said that if you want to help your child get a car or similar, to get it in your name rather than co-signing. Then, you can make sure that the payments are on time and avoid destroying your credit, then you can take it up with your daughter later. You're going to be financially responsible for the loan either way, so better to make sure the bills are coming your way and not hers, where they might be put off without you knowing about it at first.
Here's an option, OP...if the daughter is bad with money, consider having your wife ask her to make partial payments each payday? For example, if she gets paid weekly, maybe she can pay $100 a week instead of $400 a month, in one lump payment. If she's bad with budgeting, this might make it easier for her to stay on top of it. Plus, if she "misses" a "payment" and you and your wife have to make it up, you're talking $100 and not $400.
You are right, this is even better than cosigning. If the deed is in her mother's name then really it is the mother who owns the car and if the daughter defaults it is between mother and daughter. Will it affect the husband? Maybe a little as you say with debt-to-income ratio. But emotionally? It should not if the mother has the money to make the payments. Maybe I would not have gotten a brand new car either. Maybe I would have gotten a "certified pre-owned" with a good warranty at a smaller price.
I would like to say I hope these two can work their differences out. However I will say that it would not surprise me if his wife does not join him on the new coast. It seems she has developed a mindset that it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission and that is often a death knell in a marriage, mainly because someone in a healthy marriage does not feel those are her (or his) choices to begin with. When we talk about a mother and her children, and now grandchildren, as somebody else said, most of the time a woman will choose what she sees as their safety and security over her husband's comfort and advice. Personally, I do not think that is such a bad way to go in this particular situation.
I see where you may be speaking to me because I wrote a lot yesterday and because I pointed out what so many here seem to have missed: The OP's bossy tone. Sometimes when people point out bossiness, other people give knee-jerk responses without regard for the fact that we are dealing with humans here and with humans HOW you say something is just as important as what you say. The trouble is that if a bossy tone comes out on a website like this, I can promise you it is much much worse in person.
You seem to have missed his tone too. Maybe you do not see it because you are not a woman dealing with ingrained presumption and entitlement of a certain percentage of American men of a certain age and generation and because it is not always overt. (A woman of a younger generation would be less likely to marry such a man or if she did she would have left him by now.)
I speak from a place of experience, yes, but it is neither cognitive nor confirmation bias and I do not think you know what those terms truly mean for you to say this IF you are directing your comments toward me. Are you?
Regardless this is something that comes up in my work. I see many times where middle-aged men of the "Baby Boomer" generation "advise" their wives and grown children and then become angry when their "advice" is not taken. In their anger and hurt pride they seek more to punish rather than try to find a solution if they see a new problem and it is like pulling a tooth to get them to consider that there may be reasons why it seems to them that "no one listens to them anymore." In my case where I help it involves chronic illness on top of everything else, but the general attitude is the same, that of long-term dominance that is not always overt. It is clear that this man is no stranger to manipulation to try to get his wife to do what he wants. The "silent treatment" is manipulation. Likewise he said he had to "squeeze an apology" from her. How do you "squeeze an apology" from somebody? You needle, nag, browbeat, and cajole. My educated guess is that her apology was more to get him to stop talking, and he astutely picked up on it because he complained that it didn't feel sincere.
His behavior toward his daughter is also manipulative. He did what no parent should ever do, which is try to involve their children in their marital problems. Worse, he goes even further and seeks to blame her for it. What he said to her amounts to "It's your fault your mother did this and now I have this problem in my marriage to your mother." No no no no no, that is NEVER okay. His problem is with his WIFE and her decision to buy a car that way for her daughter in a way he disagreed with, not WITH his daughter. Misplaced blame is another big "red flag" of manipulation. This appears to be a man who is unwilling to look at his own behavior and own his part in all of this. He wants to blame everyone else.
As for consulting him, she did. He told her not to cosign. There does come a point where if you tell someone not to do one thing you do not get to complain too much when they do another. Furthermore it appears that HE did not think all of this through when he told her not to cosign. As I said earlier, if his wife has her own income then if the daughter defaults his WIFE pays the car payment. Instead this man is more interested in punishing his daughter for making lifestyle choices "against his advice" and he, like it seems you, is willing to see the grandchildren be in a situation with no car or with a car that may leave them stranded somewhere if it means teaching his daughter some kind of "lesson." Then he wonders why his daughter gets angry at him?
There are no "snowflakes" here. There are only people who can see pattern and tone and people who seem to be annoyed that a man's poor tone is being seen and addressed.
Yeessh..
There is clearly a history here and not just one standing issue. This is where the resentment towards the people and processes involved comes from.
Anyone put in a situion like this would be hard pressed not to feel slighted regardless of what gender or age they happen to be from
^ Yes, that is what some people are forgetting. The wife probably only did it because she is counting on her daughter to make the payments, so she might not think it's a big deal or really understand why her husband sees that it's a big deal.
Sure, it does affect their debt-to-income ratio some, which I can see as being a problem with buying a home and replacing the two cars. Then again, if your other ducks are in a row (excellent credit score, sufficient income), you should still be alright.
Also, she DID follow your advice of not co-signing...which was probably smart. I've seen financial advice before that said that if you want to help your child get a car or similar, to get it in your name rather than co-signing. Then, you can make sure that the payments are on time and avoid destroying your credit, then you can take it up with your daughter later. You're going to be financially responsible for the loan either way, so better to make sure the bills are coming your way and not hers, where they might be put off without you knowing about it at first.
Here's an option, OP...if the daughter is bad with money, consider having your wife ask her to make partial payments each payday? For example, if she gets paid weekly, maybe she can pay $100 a week instead of $400 a month, in one lump payment. If she's bad with budgeting, this might make it easier for her to stay on top of it. Plus, if she "misses" a "payment" and you and your wife have to make it up, you're talking $100 and not $400.
This would assume the daughter has money to be good with it.
As she is coming to others for a helping hand often, I would question what "bad with money" would actually entail in this case.
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and ever since then I don't buy stuff without talking to her about it. I mean a TV is a much more minor thing, but back then we were broke and didn't have much money, so it was essentially a "large" purchase for us then.
