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I think women have as much right to be feminists as men have a right to say that it's our job to cook, clean, and do londry. "Where the hell's my dinner!" "Iron my shirt!" "Shut them kids up, I'm tryin' to hear the TV!" Now that's what a typical husband used to be. Rates of that have gone down significantly, and feminist rates have gone significantly up.
& about this whole "men's rights" bull ****, why the hell do men need rights? I still can't get over the whole "North American men, go to other countries for submissive women." thing. hahaha, what, now we've left the 1950s & men need to resourt to countries who still live in those days?
Now, I do think that feminism is ruining relationships to an extent. If she's goin' so far as to demean the man & make 'im feel like dirt under her boots, then yes, that is ruining it. But, however, that is not feminism. That's verbal abuse, which is a whole different issue.
Men don't need more rights. Neither do women. In my eyes, they're all equal to each other. It's needless to say that feminism is ruining relationships because so are men who do the same thing. 'cept they tell us that women stay home & men go earn bread & drink with their buddies, comin' home whenever they see fit.
Women, think of both sides. Men don't like when we're in control of our own mind. Very many men these days still, even though they won't admit it, like it when we have no thoughts of our own. "Oh, I don't know honey, what do you think. Oh, I'm sorry, I've been bad. I should've made this dinner better and faster. Oh silly me." BAH! That's gone with the wind, Bubba.
I think women have as much right to be feminists as men have a right to say that it's our job to cook, clean, and do londry. "Where the hell's my dinner!" "Iron my shirt!" "Shut them kids up, I'm tryin' to hear the TV!" Now that's what a typical husband used to be. Rates of that have gone down significantly, and feminist rates have gone significantly up.
& about this whole "men's rights" bull ****, why the hell do men need rights? I still can't get over the whole "North American men, go to other countries for submissive women." thing. hahaha, what, now we've left the 1950s & men need to resourt to countries who still live in those days?
Now, I do think that feminism is ruining relationships to an extent. If she's goin' so far as to demean the man & make 'im feel like dirt under her boots, then yes, that is ruining it. But, however, that is not feminism. That's verbal abuse, which is a whole different issue.
Men don't need more rights. Neither do women. In my eyes, they're all equal to each other. It's needless to say that feminism is ruining relationships because so are men who do the same thing. 'cept they tell us that women stay home & men go earn bread & drink with their buddies, comin' home whenever they see fit.
Women, think of both sides. Men don't like when we're in control of our own mind. Very many men these days still, even though they won't admit it, like it when we have no thoughts of our own. "Oh, I don't know honey, what do you think. Oh, I'm sorry, I've been bad. I should've made this dinner better and faster. Oh silly me." BAH! That's gone with the wind, Bubba.
Jessie
I have to wonder why men are so afraid of women who are capable of taking care of themselves. Are they really that insecure that her working threatens them? Is the only way they can feel like a man to be her master? I don't get men wanting slaves for wives. Well, I kind of do because a slave for a husband would be nice if I were selfish enough to not care about his feelings. I'm not that selfish so I don't want a slave for a spouse. I want a partner. Fortunately, so does my husband..... Except when it comes to clean socks. For some reason, him having clean socks is my job . I can live with that. He cooks (rarely cleans though) and changes diapers. I can do socks.
I have to wonder why men are so afraid of women who are capable of taking care of themselves. Are they really that insecure that her working threatens them? Is the only way they can feel like a man to be her master? I don't get men wanting slaves for wives. Well, I kind of do because a slave for a husband would be nice if I were selfish enough to not care about his feelings. I'm not that selfish so I don't want a slave for a spouse. I want a partner. Fortunately, so does my husband..... Except when it comes to clean socks. For some reason, him having clean socks is my job . I can live with that. He cooks (rarely cleans though) and changes diapers. I can do socks.
I can't understand not wanting a true partner either and being threatened by a person's independence. So often they will say they don't care, but once the woman begins to earn more money, the guy gets uncomfortable. Like it's some kind of competition. It makes one wonder, if a guy gets one of those mail order brides and she later decides she wants to work and becomes successful, is he gonna be supportive of her career?
Feminism simply allows women the same options men have had forever, there is no reason for anyone to have any problem with that. If it ruins relationships it must be about certain people having issues with equality and those people are not worth being with anyway.
And I think most women, whether they consider themselves feminists or not, don't want to be with a man who expects her to hide her light under a bushel or dumb herself down in order to feel better about himself.
Well guess what. There ain't no chance in hell I'm gonna get on my knees & "admire" a man for being a man. That's his job in life. He's supposed to go out & provide for his wife & children. He supposed to bring home a paycheck & put bread on the table. He supposed to keep a roof over his family's head & clothes on their backs. Now why the hell should women admire y'all men for being a man? It's supposedly our job to stay home with the kids, keep house & make sure there's a hot dinner on the table when you get home from work every night, it's your job to do all those things above. You don't "admire" us to do what we do, so we don't do that for y'all. We expect it.
Feminists are just women who refuse to be victims of male shovenists who come home expecting a certain woman at home. "Women belong in the house cooking, cleaning, & taking care of the kids. Men win bread, come home to a hot meal, & sit on their ass the wrest of the night watching TV like a lazy peace of ****. Yet, men should be admired for what they're expected to do as men while women are just expected to do it. period, end of discussion."
Not sure that I understand that concept, but I plan on doing what a truditional rancher's housewife would do, given that my husband respects me & apreciates what I do. Now that's a man, not a slimy little sexist dirtbag who thinks that feminists are unneeded & in the way. But wherever there's women simply trying to level themselves to a man, there's always a man either trying to stop them or trying to get even higher yet. "Men's rights." What the hell is that mess all about. Men have had rights, now they want more because women are gettin' 'em? Damn!
You know, I'm going to answer the question for you, rebelwoman, fleetiebelle, Ivorytickler, tamajane and susangggg.
It really IS "the" answer regarding why men in general (excluding those extreme cases we all just LOVE to hold up as though they're typical) get sensitive about successful women.
Before I even answer, I'm also going to say I know each of you is going to view my answer disdainfully because "of course" none of YOU would ever do such a thing -- and to which I may only respond people are fickle and for all that every woman I ever met wanted to argue that she "knows and understands" women in general, there's also nothing any woman despises quite so much as being told she's in any way typical of any given female behaviour, the result being that I always wonder how the living hell any of you know and understand other women since you're all so effin' atypical.
Now then... (my favorite oxymoron)
Realistic men don't get intimidated or nervous BECAUSE women become accomplished, or because they earn more, or because their salaries surpass our own. No man in his right mind would ever be bothered by that stuff; we'd just say "Look here! MY woman is the BEST! My life is actually easier because of her -- she's amazing!"
But that's not how it goes in our modern, enlightened age, oh no...
Instead what happens is that ANY semblance of partnership (contrary to your apparent -- as posted herein -- collective beliefs that all men in marriages are attempting to lord it over their wives) begins to dissolve because suddenly she's not just earning more, and she's not just flaunting it because she's proud of her accomplishments -- no, instead women typically begin to throw it in a man's face and to be blatant and even MEAN about the fact that she "no longer needs him".
The funny thing about the female declaration that they "no longer" need men -- it suggests that once upon a time they DID NEED them and therefore took whatever steps were necessary to meet their own needs. Hardly the altruistic, genteel image you've collectively deigned to cultivate over the last sixty years, is it? More pragmatic than anything, I dare say.
Stop and ask yourselves why men might become sensitive about being told over and over that they're no longer needed?
How the hell would any of YOU feel if a man came home and informed you that your status had been preempted and you were obsolete? Unnecessary? That science is even fighting to replicate SPERM so that you were to be written out of the script ASAP?!?
Really, take a second here -- don't stop and keep your mind roiling with all the stuff you want to say here in order to just tell me off and give me a piece of your mind. Stop and ask yourselves how the hell it feels to have a gender actuate a popular trend of HATE against you. Not just the random acts life throws at us but a popular trend.
Someone said earlier in this thread that "until men have had THEIR centuries of shame and degradation" we needed to simply SHUT UP.
That's not good sense; that's HATRED. That is ANGER and VEHEMENCE and the need to take out slights, perceived or imagined, on men as a whole!
If any of you have grandmothers or great-grandmothers still alive, then for the love of God have the good sense to go and ask them about these issues yourselves, find out whether they looked at all this the same way you do. Don't ask them what SHOULD be, ask them how it WAS and how they felt about it. Don't ask them if men EXISTED who did all the things you revile, ask them HOW MANY of such men existed compared to other, normal men. Stop looking for a reason to HATE and start looking for the TRUTH!
We're not afraid of women who succeed; we're afraid of women who actually seem to WANT conflict, who actually want to achieve success NOT for the sake of succeeding but rather for the opportunity to scream "A-HA -- Now, vengeance is MINE!"
There are women who most definitely do NOT do that -- and they are more valuable than any metal or gem this world has ever known; but they're few and far between, just as the men who actually seek them are few and far between. The rest of BOTH sexes are just glorified apes in skin-suits, screaming and gibbering and unsuccessfully attempting to recreate Shakespeare in a room full of poo-crusted typewriters.
If any of you are sniffing and pshaw-ing at what I'm saying here then the bottom line is you're not only not paying any attention to what's going on around you, you're not even paying attention to the things you're saying.
I am quite done with this topic and all the one-sided rants and raves from both sides, neither of them willing to hear the other. I met the world's smartest woman and she may not be mine but she gives me hope for this stupid planet. The rest of you can walk East until your hats float -- or, if you decide you have the sense to, you can elect to NOT walk East toward a lemming-like demise which lacks objective thought.
WOW. You really do know it all, don't ya? Honey, you're way off, @ least when you talk about me. If you haven't read any of my other answers to this question, I'll refresh you:
I abused men. I hit 'em, threatened 'em, & made 'em do things for me. Lookin' back now I remind myself an aweful lot of wifebeaters 'cept in a female version. You call our arguements "One sided?" Well the one thing I'm not is one sided. So Darlin, allow me to retort to that clever, yet completely wrong comment you made:
I see men in one light. They all have an obligation to be a man. I see women in one light. They all have an obligation to be a woman. Being a man means providing for his family, whether that means going out and making money to keep the roof over his wife & children's heads, or staying @ home watching the kids & keeping house (depends on the arrangement between husband & wife.) Being a woman means the same thing. We're all put on this earth to make new lives, & make sure they're good ones. We're hear to serve the Lord, not each other. Whether the man works & the woman stays home, vice versa, or they both work, they all have an obligation in life.
I see feminists as women who are tired of not being apreciated for what they do, & who are trying to level themselves to a man. Most (not all) men see that as a threat. For a thousand years+, women have just been expected to do things while men have been prased for doing things. Now that that's changing, men who see things more old fassion (most men) don't know what to make of it. I did not, however, say that all men are the same. Let me give you an example of that:
My father got pist off everytime that my mother told him about her X who abused her. My mother was a nurse & my father was a cop. He got home from work an hour earlier than her every night. He made me & my sister come downstairs & help him make dinner for our mom since she came home so late, & he didn't want her to stress over making dinner once she got home. He placed a glass of wine in front of her seat @ the table, made sure that dinner was ready when she walked through the door, & even set out little appitisers like cheese & crackers for her. Now that's a man. That's the type of man I want.
But face it, deary. There aren't, & probably never will be, too many men like my father. I said above that I'll be happy to be a truditional rancher's housewife. The only thing that will be nontruditional is that I'll expect a thank you every time I cook a meal, or wash some dishes, or iron a shirt.
To continue, most men are intimidated by feminists just like most women are pist off at being catagorized & not apreciated. Hey, that's life. & I understand when you say that we don't like being put into a pattern, so why do we do it to men? Well here's my answer: They do it, why can't we? It's human nature. You'll never find a person without an oppinion. You'll never find a person who doesn't judge based on mantality. I judge men who sit there @ the table after work watching his wife finish cooking his dinner as old fassion. If they don't jump in & help her, they obviously expect that she'll take care of his dinner. Those kind of men rarely hand out thank yous either. I also judge women who get on her hands & knees to kiss her husband's boots every night when he comes home from work as old fassion. Those types of women rarely expect respect from her husband, & quite frankly don't deserve it.
& by the way, how in hell do you know that I haven't asked my sweet old Grandma (bless her dear old heart) how it was being married to Grandpa? Cooking, cleaning, taking care of all six of her kids, washing clothes by hand, etc. Grandpa was a trucker, so he couldn't help her anyway. I hate people like you who jump to conclusions. I've been asking my grandma about old life since I's 14 years old. I want to live mostly old fassion, plus a little respect in my direction. What's wrong with that? hmm
Now, sweetheart, there's my life story. If you don't try & judge me by that, I think we're good. I'm sorry if me & the other more sensable women you named in your post above aren't good enough, but that's life. None of us will ever be good enough for everyone, & I obviously don't expect to be.
Bottom line: Feminists are not ruining relationships if all they're doing is leveling themselves. It's the men who can't handle women's independence who are ruining relationships. So when you say that people don't know anything, make sure you're right.
I met the world's smartest woman and she may not be mine but she gives me hope for this stupid planet.
Urb, you should have told me that was you!
And one more small joke: Dude. I almost needed a sherpa and an oxygen tank to scale that enormous post.
Okay, moving on. I don't agree with how you parse feminism and women's lib, but I think I understand your reasoning. And I do agree with a lot of what you said.
You know what we need next? An ENDLESS ABORTION DEBATE!!!!!!!!!!
wwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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I have to wonder why men are so afraid of women who are capable of taking care of themselves. Are they really that insecure that her working threatens them? Is the only way they can feel like a man to be her master? I don't get men wanting slaves for wives. Well, I kind of do because a slave for a husband would be nice if I were selfish enough to not care about his feelings. I'm not that selfish so I don't want a slave for a spouse. I want a partner. Fortunately, so does my husband..... Except when it comes to clean socks. For some reason, him having clean socks is my job 
. I can live with that. He cooks (rarely cleans though) and changes diapers. I can do socks.
To Urban Sasquatch
