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Two points there, one raising the question of methods of assessing data incorporating 'how do we know what we know?' Without wanting to explain how the methods of sound reasoning, proving fact and building up a valid body of data has been put together, let me just say that it is sound reasoning and valid assessment of raw data that entitles us to say what is a plausible claim and what is not and a belief system telling people how to think, how to live and how to vote, while helping themselves to their money on the basis of a book of faith claims which do not stand up to serious scrutiny is what I would call a sham.
The second is about the value of Christianity in managing our spiritual lives. While the whole of that sentence strikes me as tosh, it is of course your free individual choice to manage your spiritual life (whatever that is) on the basis of Christianity, which is, as I say, a sham.
It is a sham for sound and demonstrable reasons and, while it is your good right to base your life on it and even to suggest to others that they base their lives on it, it is also my good right to suggest to them that would be better off to drive a hardwood stake through their head from ear to ear rather than buy into the addlepated nonsense peddled by Christianity being derived from the fatuous pages of the gospels and the used - car salemans' patter of the liar Paul.
I'm wondering if the original teachings, meanings of Christianity have been grossly twisted, rearranged, misinterpreted over the ages... to suit whoever was in power (Pope, King, Prophet) at the time...
For instance: there is a book called The Other Bible. Contains ancient alternative scriptures, Dead Sea Scrolls, Jewish & Christian Apocrypha, Diverse Gnostic Texts and various Gospels (Nicodemus, Bartholomew). Quite interesting and thought provoking. Yet not one of these are included in the Old & New Testaments. I always wondered why and who decided what was worthy/holy/prophetic enough to make up the contents of the Bible.
Sham or not, Christianity has run the length of both: Stories/parables (the good Samaritan, forgiveness, mercy, love) helping people throughout history to live kindly with one another ... and on the other hand has been responsible for some of the most horrific, cruel and destructive events (witch hunts, the Inquisition, persecution) on this planet.
Quite simple for each of us to utilize Christianity in our own way.... accept it wholly, or with a grain of salt/question/curiosity/truth, or consider it a big ol' sham. Doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.... it's a debate that has and will persist forever, each side asserting theirs is the "only way to go"
In this general topic, I think we all need to watch The Man From Earth. It sort of addresses to the whole issue (among several others) of "what if Jesus's followers got it wrong?"
It is a sham for sound and demonstrable reasons and, while it is your good right to base your life on it and even to suggest to others that they base their lives on it, it is also my good right to suggest to them that would be better off to drive a hardwood stake through their head from ear to ear rather than buy into the addlepated nonsense peddled by Christianity being derived from the fatuous pages of the gospels and the used - car salemans' patter of the liar Paul.
Arequipa....
You are very good and good with words. I really like 'addlepated'. That's a new word for me! And now a comment.
My faith in your arguments suffers in that I can see a way of thinking which I believe and this is my opinion in stunting the growth of intelligent discourse. You appear to push on with an undercurrent bristling with some emotion.
But a point on faith and mystery. I'm just wondering if you would have the wherewithal if you were the leader of say your clan way back when when the moon's visage struck terror in the hearts of men to make decisions WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER OR THE OUTCOME. Now I'd think it is necessary that you'd have to make them whether you liked it or not. Faith. Some do find it in religion. I think that's ok. The 'sham' I think is that one MUST have an answer or an answer HAS TO exist. The world just doesn't seem to work that way.
It is a sham for sound and demonstrable reasons and, while it is your good right to base your life on it and even to suggest to others that they base their lives on it, it is also my good right to suggest to them that would be better off to drive a hardwood stake through their head from ear to ear rather than buy into the addlepated nonsense peddled by Christianity being derived from the fatuous pages of the gospels and the used - car salemans' patter of the liar Paul.
Arequipa....
You are very good and good with words. I really like 'addlepated'. That's a new word for me! And now a comment.
My faith in your arguments suffers in that I can see a way of thinking which I believe and this is my opinion in stunting the growth of intelligent discourse. You appear to push on with an undercurrent bristling with some emotion.
But a point on faith and mystery. I'm just wondering if you would have the wherewithal if you were the leader of say your clan way back when when the moon's visage struck terror in the hearts of men to make decisions WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER OR THE OUTCOME. Now I'd think it is necessary that you'd have to make them whether you liked it or not. Faith. Some do find it in religion. I think that's ok. The 'sham' I think is that one MUST have an answer or an answer HAS TO exist. The world just doesn't seem to work that way.
I think you've misinterpreted Arequipa. I haven't heard him state that one must have an answer or that an answer must exist.
No faith is required to demand evidence before deciding. Decision-making doesn't require a guarantee of an outcome, only that an evaluation of the evidence will lead you to the best choice. Evidence can include reasonable expectations based upon past experience, which some consider "trust". Faith is not a pathway to truth, so why would someone make decisions based on faith?
Faith is not a pathway to truth, so why would someone make decisions based on faith?
That's an interesting point. But I'd think for example that belief and trust are also bound up to an extent with 'faith'. Faith doesn't exist in a vacuum. But I thinki because it is bound up with other qualities, I think that, on the contrary, it can lead to truth. And that journey involves the personal where convictions lead to generate faith.
Faith is not a pathway to truth, so why would someone make decisions based on faith?
That's an interesting point. But I'd think for example that belief and trust are also bound up to an extent with 'faith'. Faith doesn't exist in a vacuum. But I thinki because it is bound up with other qualities, I think that, on the contrary, it can lead to truth. And that journey involves the personal where convictions lead to generate faith.
As a dead clock is right twice a day, a decision based solely on faith could be the correct decision occasionally. Belief and trust can certainly be based on faith, but it doesn't guarantee a positive outcome any more than the dead clock can be trusted to give the correct time. Why would one take such a chance, also while ignoring contradictory objective evidence?
One of my problems with Christianity is that if you take away satan and hell, the whole thing falls apart. Christianity is based on redemption, but what do we need redemption from? ourselves? others? fate?
Also, everybody knows what hell is, but nobody knows what heaven is, is it a glorified earth? a mystical place found in John's psychedelic visions? happy hunting grounds? reincarnation?
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