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i am asking because some people decide that there can't be a god when bad things happen. can someone elaborate either pro or con? i don't even know if there is a god but if there is then why do we think god is all about good and love and get upset with god (if there is a god) when bad things happen.
why/how have we all been conditioned to think that god is all about good things? i am just looking for feedback as to how this (our ideas about god=good) happened.
"God" does not "allow" anything. It just "is"...things just "are".
Also..."Good" or "Bad", are subjective and relative. IE: It may be considered "bad" for you...but it is "good" for the bacteria that uses your body to feed off of.
i am asking because some people decide that there can't be a god when bad things happen. can someone elaborate either pro or con? i don't even know if there is a god but if there is then why do we think god is all about good and love and get upset with god (if there is a god) when bad things happen.
why/how have we all been conditioned to think that god is all about good things? i am just looking for feedback as to how this (our ideas about god=good) happened.
I suspect the experience we have in this realm of suffering teaches us something about love that can't be learned another way, due to our level of consciousness. In practice, when I consciously stay present with my own suffering and empathizing with that of others, it does expand my heart. Especially when it comes to forgiving those who have harmed me.
You are conflating things for which humans have no responsibility with those things they do have responsibility for. Child abuse is human-caused and human abusers have the responsibility. Tsunamis and disease are not human-caused so no human has the responsibility. We were given Dominion here but told we would have to overcome and endure whatever we can. The Omni's are human-derived NOT claimed by God.
Have you ever exp any past life at all? Even a scene from a past life to help you
understand why something, (ha, usually unpleasant emotionally) is happening?
So you see the wisdom in it, and then deal with it MUCH better?
I certainly have.
They all have been quite humbling -- yet, have given me the strength to leave situations.
If you haven't, you weren't supposed to - I have, because I was supposed to for whatever reason...
I was stuck and then, freed up.
As I have posted before - I wasn't such a great person in other lives.
So true,
Quote:
kmom -"I suspect the experience we have in this realm of suffering
teaches us something about love that can't be learned another way.."
Have you ever exp any past life at all? Even a scene from a past life to help you
understand why something, (ha, usually unpleasant emotionally) is happening?
So you see the wisdom in it, and then deal with it MUCH better?
I certainly have.
They all have been quite humbling -- yet, have given me the strength to leave situations.
If you haven't, you weren't supposed to - I have, because I was supposed to for whatever reason...
I was stuck and then, freed up.
As I have posted before - I wasn't such a great person in other lives.
...
Yes, I have. And I don't see that that is dependent on god. And in fact, my past life experience had to do with Buddhsit culture, and most Buddhists don't believe in god.
Yes, I have. And I don't see that that is dependent on god. And in fact, my past life experience had
to do with Buddhsit culture, and most Buddhists don't believe in god.
I haven't gone back to look - but did I even say the word God?
There is a 'system' - I see it anyway. I don't go along with the topic's question, at all. ---'God allowing' is immature thinking, imo.
And you know
I couldn't care less if someone believes in God.
But, it is clear living this life there is a system in motion...whether anyone believes in an
indwelling Intelligent Being/Spirit/ Mind or not.
The system is basically - 'What goes around comes around'. It can be proven -
steal some things see what happens in your life.
I haven't gone back to look - but did I even say the word God?
There is a 'system' - I see it anyway. I don't go along with the topic's question, at all. ---'God allowing' is immature thinking, imo.
And you know
I couldn't care less if someone believes in God.
But, it is clear living this life there is a system in motion...whether anyone believes in an
indwelling Intelligent Being/Spirit/ Mind or not.
The system is basically - 'What goes around comes around'. It can be proven -
steal some things see what happens in your life.
Yes, you mentioned god several times, along with phrases that were "god-like".
Probably - but I revived my old (musical) corpse -thread just recently. But at least this is a persistent debate.
God made everything
So God is responsible for everything.
Plainly that won't do, so Someone Else has to carry the can. Satan won't really do, as that comes back to God eventually who only allows Satan to do what he does for some reason.
A better get -out for God is 'Free will' which argues that God is unable to intervene as this would be controlling man's ideas and beliefs - which would nullify Faith, thus endangering man's chances of being saved.
I know that God actually intervened several times, notably with Paul whose Free Will was definitely abrogated (according to Acts) in order to get God's plan to convert the gentiles under way.
If I were a Christian apologist, I'd say that He can and sometimes does abrogate free will but only when it's needed for a particular purpose. The message given, God would then leave it to people to freely believe or not without interference. But there's a problem. Apparently large grey areas of doubt have to be left or Faith merely becomes belief on evidence which, frankly, isn't enough to gain salvation.
Or perhaps not enough for an ordinary bod to be saved. If they were a remarkably good person, that might swing it (1), but for the normal sinner, you need to have Faith without good evidence. In fact the best Faith is Faith In Spite of the evidence. It would take a god to walk the moral tightrope (2) between where one is making Faith (rather than belief for good reasons) the pass -mark for salvation, and making himself look so unbelievable that people lose the chance of being saved because God just makes himself look unbelievable.
Just look at the nativities. Wouldn't God have made sure that the stories matched? Wouldn't he have Mark and John at least mention the birth in Bethlehem? Wouldn't he have made sure the account in Josephus didn't look like a fake? Wouldn't he have prompted Philo to have made some mention at least and Tacitus to write something about Jesus other than just what the followers claimed?
It seems as though what God's intentions are regarding Free Will v. Evidence is ...provide enough to convince those who WANT to believe but not enough to persuade those who don't. How's that for a mechanism for making Faith the basis of salvation but not making it plainly true even to doubters? Where's my prize, Templeton Foundation?
It's so staggeringly elegant that it makes Natural Selection look like the battle of Passchendale. By making Faith without a valid reason to have it as the ticket for soup God hath arranged the whole system of letting people know what they need to do to be saved without abrogating Free will by making the Faith -claims too believable, he hath made the system look exactly like it would of He didn't exist at all.
(1) Paul makes it clear that Faith - not works - is what Saves but, you CAN lose grace through sinning. 'Once saved, Always saved is Not what Paul teaches, for what that's worth; he also teaches that Jesus was not God.
(2) I won't even touch on a whole Other debate on morality where God puts more pressure on Faith by acting immorally. Can it also be blamed on man, if not Satan? Would it be better to bite the bullet and say that God doesn't actually do morality, only authority? That would need a whole Other Thread. But I reckon...damn..it would come fown to same thing: It would look exactly like what you'd have if God didn't actually exist. j
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-15-2019 at 04:00 AM..
Earlier in my life as I've mentioned I believed a lot of what we've been discussing. I no longer believe we are born into sin or that we have to be saved. I think we are here just to experience all of it.. the good, the bad, the ugly. Everything lives and dies. I enjoy looking at religions or teachings outside of Christianity that help me to just appreciate nature and the time I have here. I pay attention to my dreams, and understanding coming through peoples NDEs, ADCs, but I don't live and die by words written 2000 years ago. I pay attention to the spiritual experiences people are having today. Those are more valid for me. I try to remember we are all just walking each other home. Whatever you conceive of home being whether that is your particular religion or nothing. We share this time here.
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Probably - but I revived my old (musical) corpse -thread just recently. But at least this is a persistent debate. 
