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I have just posted this in another thread, but as it is applicable to this topic also, here it is.
GNB Proverbs 13: 24; If you don't punish your son, you don't love him. If you do love him, you will correct him.
KJV... He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him.
Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who love them. are diligent to discipline them
I watched my young son stretch his hand out toward a pot of boiling water in which I was cooking crabs, I told him twice that it was very hot and it would burn him, he defied me and put his hand on the pot, remembering the pain, he now listens to my warnings.
As God allows us to make our own mistakes and to suffer the consequences and learn from the pain of our mistakes, so too do I with my children.
Pain is the great instructor and the beginning of wisdom.
Most of the knowledge, wisdom and insight that I have gained, was gained through the suffering and pain that I have experienced from the mistakes that I have made throughout my life.
FOOT PRINTS IN TIME.
I’ve left them in the desert, on the beach and in the snow
On the mountain tops, the river beds, in fact everywhere I go
Tiny footprints …... indentations to mark the pathways that I’ve trod
And yet they vanish from the sight all, except the piercing eyes of God
And he’s always been inside me, since the day I ceased to crawl
He watched me take my first small step, saw me stumble, he saw me fall
Life lets me make me own mistakes, and 'god'. . . . how many have I made
But thank the Lord I’ve learnt from them, that’s how life's game is played
The life I’ve lived, the guilt, the shame, but I wouldn’t change a dot
Cos it’s made me who I am today, and to me that means a lot
I’ll never be an Einstein, a Rembrandt, or Khayyam
But I’ve gained a greater inner peace, and I’m content with who I am
Undoubtedly I’ll fall again, mistakes will knock me off my feet
But they’ll be new encounters mate, past sins I’ll not repeat
For I store the memory of my crimes, like others store their gold
And my treasure house keeps growing as my future life unfolds...…...The Anointed.
I have known parents that subscribe to that philosophy. Thankfully many of them were reported to Child Protective Services.
two questions:
1. and in your view, the difference between a human and a machine is_________ what?
2. how does your answer to 1. above relate to "religion and spirituality"
for me, not much. I look inside of cell and see little machines. I guess my background is bias I guess.
I see a cell as a set of little machines and chemical reactions taking place at such a rate we classify the thing as life. The only traits that is different is the reproductive thing. A machine that self replicates? But then again we haven't made all that complex of a machine yet. The most complex machine I know is the LHC.
We have self replicating softwhare, so maybe software and a machine can do it? lmao, there is no maybe actually?
what does it have to do with it? everything.
There is no need to use hear say for a statement of belief about god. The only people that like arguing using hear say aren't in this game for the same reasons as some of us. A red flag is when they don't want science used that align a statement of belief to the traits of the universe.
My base claim is that we are surrounded by a system better described as "alive" as apposed to "not alive" out 2 light seconds. I will go to 40 AU's. All the science points to that as a more valid claim than the reverse. So all the lines of logic about spirituality start there.
Again, some people don't want that. For some people having to admit that some of what atheist say is correct will break them. For others, admitting that theist have some thing(s) they claim as correct, will destroy them.
Us, in the middle, pay a dear price. And we don't have to stand for it. We have logic, reason, commonsense, and most importantly, science data on our side.
I asked "and in your view, the difference between a human and a machine is_________ what?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
for me, not much. I look inside of cell and see little machines. I guess my background is bias I guess.
I see a cell as a set of little machines and chemical reactions taking place at such a rate we classify the thing as life. The only traits that is different is the reproductive thing. A machine that self replicates? But then again we haven't made all that complex of a machine yet. The most complex machine I know is the LHC.
We have self replicating softwhare, so maybe software and a machine can do it? lmao, there is no maybe actually?
what does it have to do with it? everything.
There is no need to use hear say for a statement of belief about god. The only people that like arguing using hear say aren't in this game for the same reasons as some of us. A red flag is when they don't want science used that align a statement of belief to the traits of the universe.
My base claim is that we are surrounded by a system better described as "alive" as apposed to "not alive" out 2 light seconds. I will go to 40 AU's. All the science points to that as a more valid claim than the reverse. So all the lines of logic about spirituality start there.
Again, some people don't want that. For some people having to admit that some of what atheist say is correct will break them. For others, admitting that theist have some thing(s) they claim as correct, will destroy them.
Us, in the middle, pay a dear price. And we don't have to stand for it. We have logic, reason, commonsense, and most importantly, science data on our side.
"religion and spirituality" addresses what it is that differentiates humans from machines
Yea. I'm not trying to write a Bible or even a modern day creation myth. Labels are restricting. I call myself Pagan cause its the closest I can come. But I also have some traditions from my family and teachings from all over. I screw up and its on me, end of story. Its not some priest's fault, or some religions fault, or because it was written in a holy book. I take responsibility for my spiritual life. Sometimes I think it would be easier to pass the buck and blame it on some teaching. But no.
I get real scared when people try to push notions that we shouldn't be forming statements of belief based on the traits of the universe that we see.
Can you imagine actually trying to tell people that its a bad thing to align the traits of a "god thing" to the traits of the system we are in? That using those traits to form an actuarial statement of belief is "not practically sound." they are basically trying to force a blind faith statement on us. They are exactly like fundy theist that don't use science to change the religion. They don't want the religion to grow up. Can you imagine that?
I know, I really see both sides passing the buck. "its religions fault I messed up." or "Its god's will that we abuse those evil people." They are both wacked.
It can definitely look like that. For us all.
Thats why you see me say lets list our claims and the reasons for those claims side by side.
teach to them openly and honestly and let the chips fall were they may.
"something more, not more deities" is a great lens that exposes people' intentions.
"it means god, its my god"
or
"it looks like a god claim in disguise, so nope."
when someone begins to recognize the difference between humans and machines
then there can be a conversation that relates to religion and spirituality
when someone begins to recognize the difference between humans and machines
then there can be a conversation that relates to religion and spirituality
You are right there. when somebody doesn't see how they are the same and how they are different we can't really make any head way. As seen on this site.
But you see how avoidance can save a less valid point of view. A world view based on a less valid claim can't really look at the discussion from all sides can it?
I get real scared when people try to push notions that we shouldn't be forming statements of belief based on the traits of the universe that we see.
Can you imagine actually trying to tell people that its a bad thing to align the traits of a "god thing" to the traits of the system we are in? That using those traits to form an actuarial statement of belief is "not practically sound." they are basically trying to force a blind faith statement on us. They are exactly like fundy theist that don't use science to change the religion. They don't want the religion to grow up. Can you imagine that?
I know, I really see both sides passing the buck. "its religions fault I messed up." or "Its god's will that we abuse those evil people." They are both wacked.
I am still trying to understand some of what you are saying. I figure the more I read what you write, sooner or later the more I'll understand I always leaned towards art not science so its taking me a while to get it.
Like when you say "align the traits of a god thing to the traits of the system we are in," I don't quite get what you are saying.
About "fundy" theist saying don't use science to change religion. That from what I know is part of their beliefs. What God said goes and it is final. You don't change it. I won't argue points like that with them.
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I always leaned towards art not science so its taking me a while to get it.
