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We are largely in agreement, but the sticking point is the "separate but equal" clause: "but men and women do have different roles."
The point here, Vizio, is that they are determined by fiat rather than capability and I don't believe that is from God.
So nevermind that Scripture explicitly commands that men and women have different roles? If you don't believe the Bible, then fine...but I do. And I did so long before I was a pastor. I did so long before I even realized the passages regarding the roles of men and women were even known to me. If we're going to claim to believe the bible, we must be willing to actually submit to what it says.
Isn't that what it means by believing it? Isn't that what it means to be honest to our belief that it's God's Word? Why would one believe it is God's Word and then choose to ignore it?
Isn't that what it means by believing it? Isn't that what it means to be honest to our belief that it's God's Word? Why would one believe it is God's Word and then choose to ignore it?
We ask, in particular, that leaders of all religions have the courage to acknowledge and emphasise the positive messages of dignity and equality that all the world's major faiths share. The truth is that male religious leaders have had - and still have - an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter.
The pitiful truth about many organized religions. It can't be denied, but certainly can be changed if people (men) are willing and women to fight for their basic human rights.
If there's a choice of two interpretations, which are basically opposite and have opposite effects ... then why would you even follow the scriptures in the first place? They are obviously written as empty templates to support whatever people choose to believe.
I'm sorry...I thought I did. I find it inconceivable that one might recognize the Bible as God's Word yet be unwilling to adhere to it. I just can't fathom why that would be.
So nevermind that Scripture explicitly commands that men and women have different roles? If you don't believe the Bible, then fine...but I do. And I did so long before I was a pastor. I did so long before I even realized the passages regarding the roles of men and women were even known to me. If we're going to claim to believe the bible, we must be willing to actually submit to what it says.
The owner of a company and one of her dock workers have different roles too. That doesn't speak to their value, equality or capability as human beings, or prove that the dock worker couldn't be a capable company owner or that the owner wouldn't make a great dock worker. They are simply in different roles because of different circumstances, efforts and interests -- and quite possibly different social pressures and (lack of) support.
Really at bottom all that is being suggested is that women are autonomous human beings just like men, and do not "belong" to certain men, and male and female "roles" are largely a matter of history, habit and tradition rather than something inherent in the genders. Women should be able to vote, get paid the same for the same work, and have their needs, feelings, preferences and choices respected and honored the same as men. You believe that what scripture says governs; what in scripture is opposed to this?
The owner of a company and one of her dock workers have different roles too. That doesn't speak to their value, equality or capability as human beings, or prove that the dock worker couldn't be a capable company owner or that the owner wouldn't make a great dock worker. They are simply in different roles because of different circumstances, efforts and interests -- and quite possibly different social pressures and (lack of) support.
You're absolutely correct. I couldn't agree more.
Quote:
Really at bottom all that is being suggested is that women are autonomous human beings just like men, and do not "belong" to certain men, and male and female "roles" are largely a matter of history, habit and tradition rather than something inherent in the genders. Women should be able to vote, get paid the same for the same work, and have their needs, feelings, preferences and choices respected and honored the same as men. You believe that what scripture says governs; what in scripture is opposed to this?
I completely agree. And I agree that Scripture in no way suggests that women are inferior or not to be treated as equals with men. I thank God for the women in my church that participate and serve God. The church treasurer is a woman. Another very capable woman prints the bulletins for Sunday morning. Other women are great at taking charge and I am thankful that I can count on them to teach Sunday School, organize a special dinner, or even to plan events like the VBS. If I'm honest, my church runs and functions because we have some very capable women that choose to use their God-given talents and gifts in our church.
It would be one whacked out god who would make me the better leader then tell me not too because of my genitalia.
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