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As a christian I denounce the shooting as cold blooded murder by a psychopath muslim. I also denounce homosexuality as a perversion of Gods plan for creation, His covenant regarding men with men and women with women one of the damnible sins, which I will default to God to judge these folks.
What is a 'damnable sin'? What is a 'non-damnable sin'? How does one 'sin' become more 'damnable' than another?
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Originally Posted by openmike
I have my own sin to focus on excuse me for being selfish.
Are your own 'sins' of the 'damnable' kind or the 'non-damnable' kind?
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Originally Posted by openmike
Some spoke person decided to call me homophobic incinuating I "fear" gays.? .........really ?
I would prefer not to apply labels to you but rather say that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The contrast between European Muslims and Muslim-Americans is instructive. Muslim-Americans are far harder to radicalize than European Muslims because unlike their European counterparts, they tend to be better educated and wealthier than most other Americans, much less most European Muslims.
So, we Europeans are now sharing in the guilt for the recent terrorist attacks because we have not provided enough education and wealth to Muslims to keep them from getting radicalized?
I see quite a few young Arabic men driving brand-new BMWs around. Should we have given them Ferraris instead - just, please, please, don't kill us? As for education, you know the proverb about leading a horse into the water and not being able to make him drink, right?
As for education, you know the proverb about leading a horse into the water and not being able to make him drink, right?
(Devil's advocate time, folks).
The first part of that statement is 'leading the horse to water'. You can't force the horse to drink, but you can at least show it that there's an alternative to dying of thirst.
And how about this entire bunch of crisis actors and fake or non existing gun shot wounds?
*snort* Conspiracy "theorists" are just as bad as fundamentalist preachers -- the poison they interject into our society causes the slow and painful death of reason and reality. Before you know it, these people have a significant percentage of the population believing in garbage.
What's more is that conspiracy "theorists" and those that follow them adhere to their beliefs just as stringently and stridently as any follower of a "fake god."
However, believing in a god is something I can at least understand because the believer seriously thinks he's going to get something out of it in the end. I'm not sure why conspiracy collectors hold on to their beliefs so strongly. It's not as if Alex Jones is going to give them paradise in the afterlife.
The first part of that statement is 'leading the horse to water'. You can't force the horse to drink, but you can at least show it that there's an alternative to dying of thirst.
In my country, college is free. And with the internet everyone has access to all the education one might desire - and that is almost free too. But instead of going to college or learning something online they go to a mosque and listen to sermons on how to hate the infidel. What else are we supposed to do for them? A Muslim in Western Europe, especially in Germany, has more rights and privileges than every other ethnic minority, apart from the Jews, and is treated with more respect than even the native population, because been seen as xenophobic is the ultimate sin. And they still have nothing but hate.
As a christian I denounce the shooting as cold blooded murder by a psychopath muslim.
Why? According to your beliefs, Muslims worship a false god; Muhammad is not God's profit, after all, and the Muslims do not see Christ as the Son of God.
Once again, according to your beliefs, all Muslims will end up burning in Hell for all eternity because your wonderful, loving, forgiving, peachy-keen God has a massive ego problem. Everyone has to worship *him* and no one else. Deuteronomy 13:12-18 specifically orders you to kill entire towns and cities if even ONE inhabitant of that city tries to lure a Christian away from Christianity.
Islam is a proselytizing faith just as Christianity is which means you should be out there murdering every Muslim in every city in the Middle East where a Christian resides. Muslims in Israel are especially open to this particular passage.
Except you'll say something like, "But those laws don't apply to me! Those laws were for the Israelites and Jesus came and freed us from those laws" ... or something similar. You'll have some kind of excuse as to why you shouldn't be out there killing every Muslim who proselytizes within earshot of a Christian (including those who do so by television, radio, internet, etc.) and why their cities shouldn't be put to the torch.
And, after making that excuse, you'll still cling to something like this:
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Originally Posted by openmike
I also denounce homosexuality as a perversion of Gods plan for creation, His covenant regarding men with men and women with women one of the damnible sins, which I will default to God to judge these folks.
You can't say that you "default to God to judge these folks" when you just got done judging them in that very same paragraph. That, in effect, is simply being cowardly.
Not to mention the fact that those old laws have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "sin" and everything to do with trying to maintain and increase the population of Israelites. Simply put: If you're off having sex with someone of the same gender, you're not producing babies. That's what it was all about.
Well ... not only are you not a member of the tribes of Israel (unless you're a Jew, of course), the coming of Jesus was supposed to free everyone of such atrocious and despicable laws (the kind of Godly justice whereby a man who murders his brother is allowed to go free whilst homosexuals are ordered to be put to death; you know, the kind of laws that our society today wouldn't tolerate because they are *immoral*).
If not, then you should be out there, at the very least denouncing the religion of Islam, but more appropriately, murdering every Muslim who proselytizes and then destroying his town, as well. What's the matter? Not willing to give up your freedom for your God? Not willing to follow the Biblical laws because you know you'll get thrown in jail? Or perhaps you honestly think that killing them is *immoral.*
Yet, if that's the case, why is there this continuous, boisterous, outcry against homosexuals?
I find it amusing ... yet also fortunate ... that those of you so fervent in your "denouncements" of homosexuality are incapable of following the laws of your holy book to their conclusion.
You either refuse to kill homosexuals because you're afraid of going to prison -- which makes you little better than any radical Muslim ... OR ... you've decided for yourself that putting to death homosexuals and Muslims is immoral which, in turn, means you've accepted the fact that your holy book is immoral (especially the Old Testament).
Quote:
Originally Posted by openmike
I have my own sin to focus on excuse me for being selfish. Some spoke person decided to call me homophobic incinuating I "fear" gays.? .........really ?
Everyone knows that there are plenty ... and I do mean plenty ... of people in America who are using the Bible to justify their bigotry, their hatred, and their prejudice of homosexuals. In many cases, bigotry, hatred, and prejudice are caused by fear.
There is very little doubt in my mind that those who wrote the Bible were the victims of the same fear that people of today feel in regards to gays. It's very common to fear that which we do not understand; some people make the world a better place by trying to understand while others make the world a hell by lashing out to destroy everything they do not understand and, hence, fear.
Again and again and again, whenever that fear and hatred born of ignorance raises its atrocious head, there was ... and is ... a cross, a crescent moon, or a Star of David leading the way.
We know how many fundamentalist Christians on this board feel about homosexuality and how "depraved and sinful" it is. That is a given.
Many of us suspect that the negative feelings toward gays and lesbians are challenged only by the negative perspectives of Muslims in general.
As such, what response do the fundamentalist Christians have towards this horrible act of possible domestic terrorism, but certainly a hate crime no doubt fueled by the same teachings against homosexuality that both fundamentalist Christians and Muslims adhere to.
Do you deep down, viscerally feel abhorrence to this massacre? Do you deep down in your heart have a touch of, "Meh, they were gay, so who cares."? Are you angry because a Muslim did this?
Why are these questions asked? Because we have seen so much vitriol against homosexuals on this board that one has to wonder if everyone has empathy towards those killed.
Not as a Christian. As an LGBT Christian. It is appalling. And what is really appalling is that our government claims to be in favor of LGBT rights but is sending more of these folks over.
In my country, college is free. And with the internet everyone has access to all the education one might desire - and that is almost free too. But instead of going to college or learning something online they go to a mosque and listen to sermons on how to hate the infidel. What else are we supposed to do for them? A Muslim in Western Europe, especially in Germany, has more rights and privileges than every other ethnic minority, apart from the Jews, and is treated with more respect than even the native population, because been seen as xenophobic is the ultimate sin. And they still have nothing but hate.
Attention: the following is given as example only. It is not intended as an 'attack' on Christianity.
Your point?
Christian fundamentalists go to church and listen to sermons on how to 'hate the gays'. Not only that, but they constantly argue (and try to force the world to accept) that they should have more privileges than non-Christians.
We can show them a better way; we can give them an alternative to hate by counteracting the misconceptions that cause it; we can repair the damage those misconceptions have done by changing how we present ourselves. We can show them a better way, but we can't force them to accept our offer.
However, believing in a god is something I can at least understand because the believer seriously thinks he's going to get something out of it in the end. I'm not sure why conspiracy collectors hold on to their beliefs so strongly. It's not as if Alex Jones is going to give them paradise in the afterlife.
Some real evidence would be nice, though.
Not true for all, not for me. I'm focused on people around me right here, hurting and broken, hungry and sick, or imprisoned or otherwise oppressed. When I read about the kind of life Christ lived, I see someone worth emulating. I really don't care about what happens after I die. Since it's out of my hands, it's not something I'm concerned with.
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