Praying For Those Who Are Not Saved (worship, Mary, punishment)
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So then you believe God DOES interfere with free will, choices, choice consequence and so on?
Well, this blows the whole "God doesn't help starving children no matter how hard they pray because it would be unloving him to interfere with our choices and the consequences - that would make us all just controlled robots!" thingie all to hell, eh?
Also ruins the whole "God isn't a genie in a bottle to rub and receive wishes" bit.
Hmm.
Too much of this and the Apologetics Arsenal will be depleted. Slow down.
wtf are you talking about? That's an LOL nonsense if I ever heard one.
Me saying a prayer doesn't mean God's going to do anything. It is akin to wishing someone good health and good fortune.
Jeez, talk about reading WAY TOO INTO THINGS.
Someone sure pissed you off at some age in life apparently.
So you pray to God...for basically no reason at all?
Interesting.
It's not for 'no reason at all'. It also doesn't mean anything will come of it, or anything will come of it at that time. or I am to truly grasp what is to occur. But there is not a darn thing wrong for wishing health and good fortune on fellow humans.
But I'll still do it. As stated, I don't pray for others salvation as I don't believe in the definition of that word in it's current context. And I also don't routinely engage with closed minded people of a religious, or atheistic, persuasion as their responses are predictable and quite boring. Quite often, totally devoid of humor as well.
First off, I think we need to stop assuming that we even know what someone else's status with God is.
Bingo... hence the whole 'salvation' aspect. That's not my place, role, or decision... if it even is a decision (which I personally don't believe it is a decision as I think everyone ends up the same place regardless of creed).
to say you will not help someone in need because it violates their free will is just really dark and twisted.
JerZ doesn't believe that either.
The point she was making was the argument put forth (primarily) by Christian apologists that the reason god doesn't help people about to be raped, killed, or starving kids is because that would violate mankind's free will. It is a very common argument put forth as an explanation to the problem of evil.
So if you were to pray for god to essentially convert non-believers to be Christians, you would be praying for god to violate thein free will....just as he would need to do for the rapist or murderer before committing the evil act.
Obviously not every Christian, let alone every theist, swallows that line of reasoning. But it is quite often used to explain how a loving, all powerful, and all knowing god could allow evil to innocent victims.
It's not for 'no reason at all'. It also doesn't mean anything will come of it, or anything will come of it at that time. or I am to truly grasp what is to occur. But there is not a darn thing wrong for wishing health and good fortune on fellow humans.
But I'll still do it. As stated, I don't pray for others salvation as I don't believe in the definition of that word in it's current context. And I also don't routinely engage with closed minded people of a religious, or atheistic, persuasion as their responses are predictable and quite boring. Quite often, totally devoid of humor as well.
Not a thing wrong with wishing health happiness and prosperity on us all, though it is probably more of a waste of time even than praying for world peace, which can at least stimulate some Intent.
But for me, the basis of not doing things that don't make any rational sense is always the better option and, while doing things for no better reason than Faith (which is no good reason at all) even if it doesn't appear to do any harm, is wrong at bottom, and doing the wrong is wrong even if it doesn't have any harmful effects - or at least none that are apparent.
if someone is going to pray for others, then pray for things that benefit everyone such as world peace, health, kindness, harmony, stable food supply, honest livelihood, dignity for all humankind.
Does anyone who prays for such generic things really expect an actual answer?
Does anyone who prays for such generic things really expect an actual answer?
Does anyone who prays about anything expect an actual answer?
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