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Sorry, yes, glanced over the whole "...and letters" bit...I was referring to the Gospel. Yet I reiterated the word "Peter" anyway, LOL. I must've been high. (Or just doing 10 things at once and getting distracted.)
Pen names, almost certainly, and yes, that assertion is supportable, and has been combed over on this forum over and over aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand over again, but is still ignored by those who really don't want to know.
Even with that said, though "Peter" and "John" may have walked with Jesus if there was a Jesus, the fact of the actual Peter and the actual John having written their own epistles has been highly refuted by scholars.
It's all unsubstantiated. The two being authors of their own writings is even unsubstantiated. As usual in these parts, it's the Bible proving the Bible proving the Bible.
"Believers" who are looking to argue historicity and proof are really barking up the wrong tree. They should stick with emotional button-pushing (fear of hell, pleasure of heaven) instead of logic and reason (the latter being where they will always fall down). Hitting the reptilian-brain pleasure seeking/pain avoidance centers is what has always generally worked for any given religion. Logic just scr*ws things up. (That's why the ideas of "faith" and "grace" happened. There's so much finger-in-the-hole-in-the-diking when it comes to religion.)
It's all unsubstantiated. The two being authors of their own writings is even unsubstantiated. As usual in these parts, it's the Bible proving the Bible proving the Bible.
"Believers" who are looking to argue historicity and proof are really barking up the wrong tree. They should stick with emotional button-pushing (fear of hell, pleasure of heaven) instead of logic and reason (the latter being where they will always fall down). Hitting the reptilian-brain pleasure seeking/pain avoidance centers is what has always generally worked for any given religion. Logic just scr*ws things up. (That's why the ideas of "faith" and "grace" happened. There's so much finger-in-the-hole-in-the-diking when it comes to religion.)
Nonsense. In both instances, the writers claimed to be Peter & John, who walked with Jesus. Therefore, it is up to you to prove otherwise.
*I see you've chosen to use the "They're stupid" argument. I guess that means you have nothing substantial to offer to the debate.
Nonsense. In both instances, the writers claimed to be Peter & John, who walked with Jesus. Therefore, it is up to you to prove otherwise.
LMAO!
Nope, indeed.
Anyone can "say" anything. I could say right now that I'm magic and at night, when the fairies come out, I can do magic but nobody can see it, because it's secret magic. Is it up to me to prove that or is it up to you to DISprove that I can do secret magic nobody can see?
It's up to the person making the claim to prove him/herself.
Your proof is?
Quote:
*I see you've chosen to use the "They're stupid" argument.
What part of following our instincts and DNA programming (so to speak) in seeking pleasure and avoiding pain translates to "they're stupid"? Didn't Einstein, Tesla, Copernicus and Mozart seek pleasure and avoid pain?
Quote:
I guess that means you have nothing substantial to offer to the debate.
Nonsense. In both instances, the writers claimed to be Peter & John, who walked with Jesus. Therefore, it is up to you to prove otherwise.
*I see you've chosen to use the "They're stupid" argument. I guess that means you have nothing substantial to offer to the debate.
I wrote a short story in which I claim to have walked with Jesus, turn different fluorescent colors at will, grow butterfly wings, and leap tall buildings in a single bound. Therefore, it is up to you to prove otherwise.
Anyone can "say" anything. I could say right now that I'm magic and at night, when the fairies come out, I can do magic but nobody can see it, because it's secret magic. Is it up to me to prove that or is it up to you to DISprove that I can do secret magic nobody can see?
It's up to the person making the claim to prove him/herself.
Your proof is?
1 Peter 1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ...
Rev. 1
I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus...
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ...
Rev. 1
I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus...
Prove otherwise.
Again, anyone can say anything. I could write something saying I'm John, for that matter.
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
2 Peter 1
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ...
Rev. 1
I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus...
Prove otherwise.
It's only true if the Bible is true. The only proof that the Bible is true is because it says so in the Bible.
See the problem? It's circular. If you say you believe it to be true, that is one thing. But you're saying the Bible proves the Bible is true; it doesn't.
Again, anyone can say anything. I could write something saying I'm John, for that matter.
It is on you to prove the claim.
Since the books/letters make that claim, it's up to you to refute such.
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The gospels are anonymous.
it's the Bible proving the Bible proving the Bible. 
