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As a math teacher uses a math book to teach math,
as an English teacher uses an English book to teach English,
as a science teacher uses a science book to teach science,
a Bible teacher would use the Bible to teach what the Bible really teaches.
True, math, English, science, history, etc. can be found within many books on the subject.
Whereas the Bible is unique, and only the Bible's teachings can be found within the 66 books of Bible canon.
And only Aesop's Fables can be found in Aesop's Fables.
And only Lord Of The Rings can be found in Lord Of The Rings.
And only TroutDude's posts can be found on CD forums....
As a math teacher uses a math book to teach math,
as an English teacher uses an English book to teach English,
as a science teacher uses a science book to teach science,
a Bible teacher would use the Bible to teach what the Bible really teaches.
True, math, English, science, history, etc. can be found within many books on the subject.
Whereas the Bible is unique, and only the Bible's teachings can be found within the 66 books of Bible canon.
And editors, critics, other teachers, etc. continuously vet, correct, critique and update the facts of those math, English and science books (or retire the book altogether if there are just too many errors/too much later disproven information/not sufficient coverage of recent information.
THAT'S why these teachers can use books of the subjects themselves as their teaching tools...because the books are up to date, willing to make changes where they were wrong, vetted, and therefore are as reliable as humanly possible. They ARE in those ways to the best of current knowledge, accurate and reliable.
Compare all that to the Bible and you'll see that there really IS no comparison, and you will see why it is NOT reliable use the Bilble in order to prove the Bible.
And editors, critics, other teachers, etc. continuously vet, correct, critique and update the facts of those math, English and science books (or retire the book altogether if there are just too many errors/too much later disproven information/not sufficient coverage of recent information.
THAT'S why these teachers can use books of the subjects themselves as their teaching tools...because the books are up to date, willing to make changes where they were wrong, vetted, and therefore are as reliable as humanly possible. They ARE in those ways to the best of current knowledge, accurate and reliable.
Compare all that to the Bible and you'll see that there really IS no comparison, and you will see why it is NOT reliable use the Bilble in order to prove the Bible.
On the other hand, if it really is the word of God, as is claimed, you can see why is would have validity.
On the other hand, if it really is the word of God, as is claimed, you can see why is would have validity.
On the other hand, anyone could claim anything.
If the claim is unsupported and untried then it's just a claim.
Hindus claim there are blue gods and many armed gods. They use ancient writings to prove it. Since the writings describe the gods can the writings be considered proof that this information is correct? If these writings really are the words of the gods, you can see why they have validity.
If the claim is unsupported and untried then it's just a claim.
Hindus claim there are blue gods and many armed gods. They use ancient writings to prove it. Since the writings describe the gods can the writings be considered proof that this information is correct? If these writings really are the words of the gods, you can see why they have validity.
True, but remember, the Bible is really 66 books and letters, written over thousands of years, by some who actually walked with Jesus, all claiming basically the same thing.
Why do we need to persevere with God in prayer concerning the salvation of others?
As an atheist, I wholeheartedly encourage fundamentalists to pray for my soul!
Not that there's any point in it at all, but it's like tossing a locked suitcase to a chimp - as long as he's fiddling with it, he's keeping out of trouble.
So it is with the fundies. Time spent pointless praying is time that they're not otherwise screwing up society!
True, but remember, the Bible is really 66 books and letters, written over thousands of years, by some who actually walked with Jesus, all claiming basically the same thing.
Well, not exactly. You kind of mooshed a bunch of stuff up there, and misrepresented one or two, LOL.
1. Written over thousands of years: That's weird. I thought the oldest portions of the OT were written in the fifth century BC. Then the NT was written up to approximately the mid-third century? That's not thousands of years. Actually, that's not even ONE thousand years.
2. By those who walked with Jesus: almost certainly that's a "no."
3. All agreeing on the same thing: Because the eventually accepted books out of many that didn't make the grade were copyings of earlier popular versions/one another, which is easy to see. At least if you're talking about the NT. But until the four books of the Gospel were officially put in to canon there WAS NOT agreement. "All" definitely did NOT claim the same thing, not even basically. MANY texts were literally thrown out - for not agreeing (or at least, for not agreeing with what the Council of Nicea, none of whom, BTW, "walked with Jesus," WANTED them to agree on). So nope.
4. NOBODY who wrote the OT "walked with" anyone up to at least Moses but almost certainly until way, way more recently in history than Moses would have existed, but even given that, Moses, IF he existed AND if he wrote Genesis as the legend/myth goes, never could have possibly walked with A&E, Noah, or any of the OT crew, so the intimation that "knowing" Bible characters first-hand makes any of these books more legitimate can pretty much be put to bed. As for the rest of the writers of the OT: they never "walked with" the people they wrote about either. It was all oral storytelling, generation to generation and probably changed thousands of times, until ultimately the Bible (calling the Bible the OT to Jews is EXTREMELY offensive) was born, piece by written piece. Then later, when Christians decided to steal the Bible from the Jews, they added their own texts that they chose because their counsel at that exact time in history came to an agreement on those books, and threw all the rest away.
Well, not exactly. You kind of mooshed a bunch of stuff up there, and misrepresented one or two, LOL.
1. Written over thousands of years: That's weird. I thought the oldest portions of the OT were written in the fifth century BC. Then the NT was written up to approximately the mid-third century? That's not thousands of years. Actually, that's not even ONE thousand years.
2. By those who walked with Jesus: almost certainly that's a "no."
3. All agreeing on the same thing: Because the eventually accepted books out of many that didn't make the grade were copyings of earlier popular versions/one another, which is easy to see. At least if you're talking about the NT. But until the four books of the Gospel were officially put in to canon there WAS NOT agreement. "All" definitely did NOT claim the same thing, not even basically. MANY texts were literally thrown out - for not agreeing (or at least, for not agreeing with what the Council of Nicea, none of whom, BTW, "walked with Jesus," WANTED them to agree on). So nope.
4. NOBODY who wrote the OT "walked with" anyone up to at least Moses but almost certainly until way, way more recently in history than Moses would have existed, but even given that, Moses, IF he existed AND if he wrote Genesis as the legend/myth goes, never could have possibly walked with A&E, Noah, or any of the OT crew, so the intimation that "knowing" Bible characters first-hand makes any of these books more legitimate can pretty much be put to bed. As for the rest of the writers of the OT: they never "walked with" the people they wrote about either. It was all oral storytelling, generation to generation and probably changed thousands of times, until ultimately the Bible (calling the Bible the OT to Jews is EXTREMELY offensive) was born, piece by written piece. Then later, when Christians decided to steal the Bible from the Jews, they added their own texts that they chose because their counsel at that exact time in history came to an agreement on those books, and threw all the rest away.
So, do I doubt the validity?
Well, yes, LOL. I mean call me crazy. (shrug)
1. The books of the Bible were written at different times by different authors over a period of approximately 1,500 years.
1. The books of the Bible were written at different times by different authors over a period of approximately 1,500 years.
Probably not. This assumes the Moses mythology to accommodate the far (far back) end of that total time period, but mythology is just that, mythology. It is not scholarship or research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
2. Yes, Peter and John.
Nope. Likely neither. Those were almost certainly "pen names."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
3. Still, 66 books and letters do agree.
Well, if you literally just toss out any disagreement whatsoever, you wind up with agreement, and even given that little "cheat", so to speak, they don't actually all agree, no. Now THAT'S pretty bad. Yes, there are inconsistencies - even among books that are supposed to describe exactly the same events (the four books of the Gospel are famous for this).
Probably not. This assumes the Moses mythology to accommodate the far (far back) end of that total time period, but mythology is just that, mythology. It is not scholarship or research.
Nope. Likely neither. Those were almost certainly "pen names."
Well, if you literally just toss out any disagreement whatsoever, you wind up with agreement, and even given that little "cheat", so to speak, they don't actually all agree, no. Now THAT'S pretty bad. Yes, there are inconsistencies - even among books that are supposed to describe exactly the same events (the four books of the Gospel are famous for this).
Mythology is your opinion.
Wrong. Reading them will show you they were written by Peter and John.
Still, 66 books and letters over 1500 years...
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