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Sorry, I don't follow bible so I can't answer your questions but this part I would like to answer
Man does NOT even know in the first of ALL what Yahweh knows.
How can man try to change what God knows, when man does not fully know what God knows?
You are still stuck in the rut - you keep assuming that man knows his destiny.
No. You have misunderstood. I'm not asking if man can deliberately prove the deity wrong by deliberately doing something with the sole purpose of out-foxing the deity and proving it wrong. I'm asking if man can make any decision that could change what the deity knows (from before the man was even born) will happen.
Let's try an example. Now, in 2016 a child is born. The deity knows that in 2050 that the man will go to live in Spain. Can the man decide to go to Germany instead of Spain?
I am not sure where and how many times I said "What God thinks and what God does not think" - can you please provide a few references?
This very thread actually. You say...
No, it doesn't work that way.
God sent his messengers to all nations in the human history. The main purpose of these prophets were to extend God's message of monotheism, glad tidings and rewards for good deeds, and warning for possible consequences if we purposely did evil things. Post 135
In another post you say....
Yes, God had all of this knowledge...
..and.. God does NOT pre-determined guy's life. God simply knows what the guy will do with his own choice
...and...
...another attribute of God is...
Clearly you appear to have some special insight into what 'God' does and why he does it...it's attributes etc.
It was an explanation, not a chastisement. You seem to have taken all this personally: your personal god, your personal story of your god, you personally are totally misunderstood, you personally are being chastised because people want to explain why we misunderstood you.
I think you're a bit upset about this. It's only a message board. Relax.
Keep your beliefs as you've invented them, just don't be unhappy if others don't jump on board. Many religions have gone the way of the dodo throughout history or have begun but petered out. It depends upon what emotional buttons the religion pushes and how good the story "hook" is. Don't take that personally either. Just keep believing what makes you happy...but realize not everyone else will believe it just because it sounds happier than the typically espoused one.
Uh, yeah. I'm taking it personal that you and Rafius were going on about me. Silly me. And there you go, acting like I'm asking you to jump on board about something when I've explained a few times now that I don't have anything for you to jump on board to.
There. Now I will relax, thanks, while you make up some more narrative about myself and my motives that makes you feel, what, superior? Hopefully not. That's not how you've come off in the past, so hopefully I'm wrong about that. I'll do my best to let it go, and let you say whatever you want without any more response.
No. You have misunderstood. I'm not asking if man can deliberately prove the deity wrong by deliberately doing something with the sole purpose of out-foxing the deity and proving it wrong. I'm asking if man can make any decision that could change what the deity knows (from before the man was even born) will happen.
Let's try an example. Now, in 2016 a child is born. The deity knows that in 2050 that the man will go to live in Spain. Can the man decide to go to Germany instead of Spain?
I don't know the answer because my knowledge is very limited and also, it seems like a useless endeavor.
I am A LOT LESS worried about what God knows before hand.
I am more focused about making the best use of my life in hopes to have a good destiny because this chance won't come again.
No, it doesn't work that way.
God sent his messengers to all nations in the human history. The main purpose of these prophets were to extend God's message of monotheism, glad tidings and rewards for good deeds, and warning for possible consequences if we purposely did evil things. Post 135
Clearly you appear to have some special insight into what 'God' does and why he does it.
No, I don't have any special insight. I simply have faith.
Obviously, I believe in what God has told me in his book, and I have faith that this is the true message.
And in that message, God tells us that he has sent messengers to all humanity with the message of monotheism.
And I beleive this to be true because I have faith in it - There is no special insight. I simply chose to have faith in it. It was my free choice to make.
Now,
does that mean I know ALL of what God knows? If I knew ALL of what God knows, then I would have been a God too, no?
Uh, yeah. I'm taking it personal that you and Rafius were going on about me. Silly me. And there you go, acting like I'm asking you to jump on board about something when I've explained a few times now that I don't have anything for you to jump on board to.
There. Now I will relax, thanks, while you make up some more narrative about myself and my motives that makes you feel, what, superior? Hopefully not. That's not how you've come off in the past, so hopefully I'm wrong about that. I'll do my best to let it go, and let you say whatever you want without any more response.
Actually I am very much enjoying the conversation since we are in an effort to understand each other's point of view, rather than indulging into a hosing down contest.
Replies below...
I want to sincerely say I appreciate you taking the time and effort for such a lengthy, substantive reply. It deserves more reflection than I have given it, and I am just squeezed for time, but ultimately what I am left feeling, from your scenario, is that we humans are just puppets, dragged into a life with a foregone outcome for apparently no other reason than the amusement of some being vastly greater than us.
And that's fine, but I do not at all see the point. In your scenario, I would feel again like a puppet with strings pulled my a being who more or less has two jars of flies: one pile he plans to leave alone; the other, he's going to pull the wings off of.
He'll let the flies in jar #2 buzz around a bit--get the feel for what it means to be a fly, might even be impressed by their flying abilities, etc., but in the end there's nothing they can do--he's gonna pull those wings off anyway.
Again I am left feeling that life without such a being has more meaning and purpose, and there is nothing whatsoever about this being that would elicit in me feelings of love, respect, awe, etc. I'd just be that fly in a jar waiting for some pubescent kid to yank off my wings. I say, no thank you.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
It's kind of Bizarro World that we seem to be sitting here defending the "fairness" and "benevolence" of something that would THROW FREAKIN' HUMAN BEINGS INTO A FIRE.
I'm sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling, folks.
No, I don't have any special insight. I simply have faith.
Then you have nothing.
Quote:
Obviously, I believe in what God has told me in his book, and I have faith that this is the true message.
What 'book? The one you said you don't follow?
...and if it is the Bible that you are referring to, why don't you believe that same book when it tells you that our lives are pre-destined?
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You seem to have taken all this personally: your personal god, your personal story of your god, you personally are totally misunderstood, you personally are being chastised because people want to explain why we misunderstood you.
