Praying For Those Who Are Not Saved (Muslim, Christ, evidence)
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In my opinion, I would have agreed with you if God had created me, and then he had immediately tossed me straight into hell fire.
So it's nicer that he offer you false hope first - since he already knows you'll wind up in the fire - then allows you millennia to agonize realizing what you'll never have again while the flames lick along your miserable flesh?
What would have been actually compassionate would have been one of the following:
1. God created a place of punishment but the punishment MADE SENSE, wasn't over-the-top horrific and "forever" compared to only 70 or so years of not doing things right (or not "having grace"), and did what punishment was supposed to do - taught you something so you could make improvements.
OR
2. God didn't allow to be born people who would inevitably suffer horrifically and eternally.
Or even (now hang in there, don't laugh, I know this one is REALLY crazy)
3. God DIDN'T specifically make humans to fail, as He foresaw before he created a single one; then went and punished them for doing exactly as He, God, set them up to do before they were even conceived, much less born, much less had the opportunity to "sin."
Now there's some compassion, and it came from a stupid, unenlightened human. I can figure this out but God can't?
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OK, so if you claim that your soul will have 'hope' after you die, then I don't question it, and gladly give it to you.
When did I say hope AFTER I die? For that matter, when originally did you - you said we unbelievers simply don't have hope. You still haven't admitted you're entirely wrong about that, BTW. Oh well, I wont hold it against you.
Now. After I die, I will be dead. You claim you'll have hope after you die. Since you will no longer exist, period after that time you'll never "know" and "ah-ha" me any more than I'll ever "know" and "ah-ha" you. Instead, we'll be gone, and newer people will survive us, and so the world will turn as it always has done.
So it's nicer that he offer you false hope first - since he already knows you'll wind up in the fire - then allows you millennia to agonize realizing what you'll never have again while the flames lick along your miserable flesh?
What would have been actually compassionate would have been one of the following:
1. God created a place of punishment but the punishment MADE SENSE, wasn't over-the-top horrific and "forever" compared to only 70 or so years of not doing things right (or not "having grace"), and did what punishment was supposed to do - taught you something so you could make improvements.
OR
2. God didn't allow to be born people who would inevitably suffer horrifically and eternally.
Or even (now hang in there, don't laugh, I know this one is REALLY crazy)
3. God DIDN'T specifically make humans to fail, as He foresaw before he created a single one; then went and punished them for doing exactly as He, God, set them up to do before they were even conceived, much less born, much less had the opportunity to "sin."
Now there's some compassion, and it came from a stupid, unenlightened human. I can figure this out but God can't?
When did I say hope AFTER I die? For that matter, when originally did you - you said we unbelievers simply don't have hope. You still haven't admitted you're entirely wrong about that, BTW. Oh well, I wont hold it against you.
Now. After I die, I will be dead. You claim you'll have hope after you die. Since you will no longer exist, period after that time you'll never "know" and "ah-ha" me any more than I'll ever "know" and "ah-ha" you. Instead, we'll be gone, and newer people will survive us, and so the world will turn as it always has done.
Believers have "hope" that after they die, they will have a better chance of making it into Paradise because they have a faith that there is a God out there.
And if there is a God out there, then their "hoping" for something to happen in this world (hope that it rains tomorrow, for example) makes sense because they believe that God can make the rain happen for them.
I guess I don't understand who Atheists believe to make their hopes come true when they believe there is no God?
You compare 70 years of evil life resulting in eternal punishment, but you conveniently ignore 70 years of righteous life resulting in eternal bliss. Why?
And the final part - you believe there is nothing after we are dead. That's your choice to make and I am OK with it.
I have faith that there is after life. And I think you should be OK with my choice too, no?
Believers have "hope" that after they die, they will have a better chance of making it into Paradise because they have a faith that there is a God out there.
And if there is a God out there, then their "hoping" for something to happen in this world (hope that it rains tomorrow, for example) makes sense because they believe that God can make the rain happen for them.
I guess I don't understand who Atheists believe to make their hopes come true when they believe there is no God?
You compare 70 years of evil life resulting in eternal punishment, but you conveniently ignore 70 years of righteous life resulting in eternal bliss. Why?
And the final part - you believe there is nothing after we are dead. That's your choice to make and I am OK with it.
I have faith that there is after life. And I think you should be OK with my choice too, no?
They also "hope" they will not get burned agonizingly from now until the end of time, subject to the whim of God who makes the rules "because He can."
I may lack "hope" (if that's how you put it) that after death, something mystical will happen to me, but the silver lining that you lack is that I don't have to be afraid that maybe somehow I did it all wrong, thought it all wrong and will be burned and boiled and poked and sodomized by demons from now until umpty-dumpty come. Further, I don't have to worry that even if *I* did and thought it all just right (yay me!), maybe my child, or my sister, or my best friend, or my parents, or Ghandi (he wasn't a Christian OR Muslim, he is definitely going to get it) won't and while I'm enjoying my however many male virgins, any of those people are getting it up the rear by Satan's trident hourly and shrieking in horrific unending pain.
Hard to blissfully stroke one's harp and bask beatifically in Jesus' rainbow light under those circumstances.
So you see, we each have a little good, a little bad there. (Well, okay, so yours is a LOT of bad but who's counting, really?)
Glad you're okay with my choice. Your choice is "okay" too except it's a little on the threatening side (that whole we'll just wait and see now, won't we, hmmmm-esque thing), but other than that, sure, of course. OTOH, although I'm "okay" with you choosing something (how could I not be? What the hell am I going to do about it? LOL...and vice versa), that doesn't mean I can't argue the illogic of it...this being a religious discussion forum and all that.
Oh! p.s. Regarding this:
Quote:
You compare 70 years of evil life resulting in eternal punishment, but you conveniently ignore 70 years of righteous life resulting in eternal bliss. Why?
I don't, LOL. Why do you think that? I feel that's equally ridiculous and entirely illogical, and certainly it's unfair if we're to put it that way, just as the opposite is unfair...HTH?
p.p.s. Psst...c'mere. (secrets time) (whispering) Just between you, me and the lamppost...if both Christians and Muslims WERE "okay with" "my" choice (or choices other than their own), none of what I am saying would be necessary at all to say...but since these groups have historically been way way waaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaay un-okay with "choices" that aren't theirs, well...perhaps now you see my dilemma and why I speak up.
The day Christians and Muslims become "okay" with people NOT practicing as they do, and leave the rest of the world the hell alone, I'll eat my hat. Actually, I'll probably pretty much drop dead. I could only wish, that's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make...my old body for "the very religious" leaving everyone else THE HELL alone with their choices. And before you argue, "Oh, but that's only the extremists!", well, crack a history book to see how much trouble "just the extremists" have manged to create for others...they're doing a fine job all on their own and have done so for almost a millennium.
You're personally deciding, graciously (thank you?) to be "okay" with my "choice", though, so, whew. Anyway, that's one down. A whole bunch of million to go. Hey, it's a start!
Believers have "hope" that after they die, they will have a better chance of making it into Paradise because they have a faith that there is a God out there.
And if there is a God out there, then their "hoping" for something to happen in this world (hope that it rains tomorrow, for example) makes sense because they believe that God can make the rain happen for them.
I guess I don't understand who Atheists believe to make their hopes come true when they believe there is no God?
You compare 70 years of evil life resulting in eternal punishment, but you conveniently ignore 70 years of righteous life resulting in eternal bliss. Why?
And the final part - you believe there is nothing after we are dead. That's your choice to make and I am OK with it.
I have faith that there is after life. And I think you should be OK with my choice too, no?
Why do our hopes have to be directed at an individual? Why do we need to direct our hopes to a God? What is wrong with just hoping something happens and being happy if it does and fine with it if it does not? Are all your thoughts directed at your God?
And who spends 70 years living either in evil or as righteous? Most of us are not 100% one or the other. What is a person spent 68 years righteous and two years evil? Or one hour evil, or one minute?
Believers have "hope" that after they die, they will have a better chance of making it into Paradise because they have a faith that there is a God out there.
And if there is a God out there, then their "hoping" for something to happen in this world (hope that it rains tomorrow, for example) makes sense because they believe that God can make the rain happen for them.
I guess I don't understand who Atheists believe to make their hopes come true when they believe there is no God?
You compare 70 years of evil life resulting in eternal punishment, but you conveniently ignore 70 years of righteous life resulting in eternal bliss. Why?
And the final part - you believe there is nothing after we are dead. That's your choice to make and I am OK with it.
I have faith that there is after life. And I think you should be OK with my choice too, no?
We understand that you have faith, but faith is no way to determine the truth. Anyone can believe anything based on faith. What if the true God (Budash) doesn't like those who worship the false Gods Yahweh or Allah and sends those who do to everlasting torment? How will your unsubstantiated faith help you at that point?
Sorry to be so didactic, but Allah isn't the name of a god...it's just a generic term for a deity, just like the word god. Many Christians in the Mid East pray to allah, because that's the word in their language for god.
Also, Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the same god, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, which is why these three faiths are known as the Abrahamic religions.
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Oh well, I wont hold it against you. 
(Well, okay, so yours is a LOT of bad but who's counting, really?)
