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Originally Posted by GldnRule
Since 4 out of 5 people in this world embrace some theological concept...that is what will influentially dominate.
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Perhaps, but what's important is WHICH theological concept dominates. Now, if you prefer to live under a Christian Taliban rule, then by all means, continue fighting US instead of the believers on here.
Because even when I see a believer say something morally repugnant ... where are you? All I hear are the sounds of crickets chirping from your corner.
If I didn't know better, I would have to wonder, given your remarkable silence even in morally unambiguous circumstances, if perhaps you *do* prefer to live under theocratic rule. Because it seems the believers can cross no line that would cause you to sit up and say, "Whoa, wait a minute ..."
And instead you seem to silently agree with every syllable that even the most ridiculous fundevangelist types.
As the old saying goes: All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
I'm not saying religion is evil, per se, but I find it rather strange, to say the least, that the most outspoken Christians (namely the type people like myself are always battling) have allied themselves with evil. So what *would* that make those Christians, then? Are they still good people? I'm not so sure about that.
Sure, we atheists could just "sit down and shut up" since that's what everyone wants us to do. I mean, how *dare* they exercise their 1st Amendment rights. Those are only for Christians, dont'chya know!
We could say nothing, do nothing ... but then, I wouldn't give a warm bucket of pee for the future of this nation. I'm dubious about it as things stand now which is why I'm gearing up to potentially leave -- one of the first rats who saw the first slow leak in the cargo hold. I'm not so sure I want to wait around until the ship is truly foundering before I leave. As I said elsewhere, everything depends on these midterm elections; if people are apathetic and don't vote, then authoritarianism and theocratic fascism will walk right in through the wide-open front door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
Atheism...that has much less acceptance, and even less "mojo" (except to get its adherents to be viewed as The Most Hated and Least Trusted...it is really good at that) will continue to get trounced and crushed in The Arena of World Merit and Influence.
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Religion has always been ... and always will be ... the most intolerant paradigm the world has ever seen. Nothing in human history comes close to the flagrant bigotry and hatred of others that adherence to religion has caused.
In other words, it is religion's own intolerance that has put atheists in that categroy, not anything we've actually done.
And that doesn't even take into account the propaganda and outright lies said about we atheists with poison being spewed from Sunday morning televangelists to Fox News.
Plus, Goldie, you know better than to rely on the Appeal to Popularity fallacy to make a case.
They don't even try to hide the outright lies anymore. In our present day idiotocracy, the liars know and understand all too well that they could convince at least 40% of all Americans that money is made from mulched grass ... or that lightning bugs have tiny little storm clouds in their bellies that make them light up ... or that the earth is a) flat, b) motionless and, c) the center of the universe.
So they lie ... and far too many people are either too stupid, too gullible, or too much in agreement with the lie to distinguish it AS a lie.
We atheists could sit here and collectively do nothing, say nothing, and let religion lead us right into another era of oppression, primitivism, inequity, and authoritarianism ... and guess what. The devoutly religious would STILL hate us. Simply because we don't believe in a god. That's all it takes.
In the same vein, ISIS said in their manifesto that THE number one reason why they keep attacking the West is because we're not Muslim. PERIOD. So even if the West withdrew its support of Israel, removed all the troops from the Middle East, and conceded to every political demand ISIS made, they would still attack us until every last man, woman, and child in Europe, North and South America, and Australia is kissing the floor 5 times a day when someone yodels from a mineret.
Given that, why concede anything to ISIS? In the same spirit of religion always asking too much, why should atheists just sit down and shut up when we're going to be hated anyway? If there's one thing most religions need even more than faith -- it's a scapegoat.
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Originally Posted by GldnRule
Right or Wrong, Good or Bad...that is just how it is.
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Meanwhile, apathy is what's causing the slow erosion of what once made America strong and trustworthy. Meh, who cares. Meh, that's just how it is. Meh, why bother. Meh, it doesn't directly affect me so why lift a finger. Meh, why bother voting since it's the same nonsense on both sides. Meh. Meh. Meh.
Either we can try to affect change ... or we can wait around until someone else does it for us. Either way, nothing ever stays the same; "just how it is" always becomes "that's how it used to be" often in very short order. I'd like to have some voice, some say, in what that change will be and what direction it takes.
Trust me as an historian --- you do NOT want to live under theocratic rule. The only people who DO are those who make the rules.
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Originally Posted by GldnRule
That is how you get major government backing of The Ark Encounter, and myriad other things like that.
And there is nothing anyone is going to do to change that any time soon. MOF...the world is becoming MORE religious.
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The only places that are becoming *more* religious are regions that are impoverished and filled with people who've never stepped foot inside of a classroom. Religion is extremely predatory -- and it loves preying on the vulnerable. As they say, knowledge is power; people in those places are entirely uneducated and thus they are entirely powerless. Therefore, they become easy pickings for missionaries and Islamic shanghai squads looking for more people to brainwash into strapping a bomb to themselves.
This is why you will never see missionaries and door-knockers hanging around the Waldorf-Astoria, in the lobby of Goldman Sachs, waiting at the entrance to the NY Stock Exchange, or ambushing people in airports who are going in and out of exclusive VIP lounges.
Oh, no, these people with their tracts, pamphlets, and brochures hang around prisons, group homes, and halfway houses. They loiter around bus stations since it is mostly the poor who would put up with a long bus trip. They pounce on new military recruits knowing they are homesick, lonely, and even a bit scared. They don't send missionaries to London, Paris, or Sydney. No, they send them to Kinshasa, Mumbai, and Mogadishu.
In fact, I had to attend a funeral yesterday, and the idiot preacher decided to turn the eulogy into an altar call. And the first thing that lept into my mind was, "And there it is ... preying on people in their grief, when they might just be vulnerable enough to throw logic to the four winds and start burbling praises to the back wall of the funeral parlor (since those praises won't go any further than that)."
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
So, those that get all bolloxed-up by that, better learn to cope...or they will live their life in constant angst, while anything they do to try to stop it will be not unlike spitting into a strong wind.
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One thing that CAN be stopped is science-denial.
I suppose there may always be this or that cult or harebrained group of loons who will believe the earth is flat, that Noah crammed 30 million animals into an ark, that snakes talk, and that human origins derive from a pile of dirt and a rib. But the vast majority will not ... and that is already true.
It's only in our benighted little country where large swathes of the population still think evolution is a lie foisted on the public to turn them away from God. Only in our country where large swathes think climate change is a hoax, that their own personal god created the universe with magical incantations, that asinine stories like the Tower of Babel are historical fact.
I really couldn't care less if people want to devout their lives into worshiping a being I don't think exists. If they stopped actively campaigning to undermine scientific advancement while simultaneously campaigning to force the whole country to obey their bigoted values (bigotry that largely stems from their holy books) and obsolete morality, what would there be to care about, really?
But as long as there are enough people out there fighting on the side of ignorance, superstition, fear, and science-denial, I'll be fighting on the opposite side - because I'd rather go down in a fight than live "under God" for the rest of my life. Their compassion isn't something I would want to have to rely upon.
The only real hope is knowing that there was a time when everyone thought the earth was the center of the universe and everything orbited it -- but now we know better, and even the rabid fundevanglicals don't make that ridiculous claim any longer. So it will be with evolution, the Big Bang, climate change, and all the rest.
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