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The question I have is...why are you guy so hell-bent on seeing the ark fail? Why does it irritate you so much?
Don't answer back that you feel bad for the poor taxpayers! Because our government has a looooooong history of making stupid investments and blowing money. If this was simply that, why aren't you mad about all the other stupid investments?
No...there is just something about this that really sets you guys off. It's really kind of interesting to watch the melt-downs.
Yes. I wonder about that myself. It is not unlike a lot of things that were polemic battles. like I/C taken down at Dover, Hovind put in jail (for fraud, rather than telling lies, but it'll do) and a few money grubbing televangelists and faith -healers, exposed, disgraced and hopefully jailed sooner rather than later.
But the Ark and the creation Museum and Bible -Disneyland, too, is a visible affront to those who believe that the truth matters and fantasy is ok so long as it is known to be fanatasy. This is fantasy presented as Fact, a Billion dollar replica of Atlantis done to make it somehow True - and at public expense, too. Disneyland as an attraction is one thing, done with the company's money. It's up to them. But done as though the public ought to fund this as educational - it sticks in the throat. We see it as a lie, a scam, a crime, a fraud and we do want to see it founder faster than an Ark replica would if they tried to float it even without the animals.
This is a huge effort to gain credit for genesis - as- history, and not only lacklustre interest by the public (even with the faithful going along out of a sense of duty, and posting effusions on trip advisor, because the truth would annoy God), would serve to satisfy those who see this as a monstrous insult to science and history,
We want not just financial failure, but total collapse, jail sentences and confiscation of assets and total disgrace for this gently smiling liar and his whole Creationist enterprise. And Eric Hovind and Matt Slick, too, while we're about it.
Yeah, all that, even without Ken Ham (or Hamm) himself pinning a lot of reputation on it. If it fails, then the God-claim Fails.
The question I have is...why are you guy so hell-bent on seeing the ark fail? Why does it irritate you so much?
Don't answer back that you feel bad for the poor taxpayers! Because our government has a looooooong history of making stupid investments and blowing money. If this was simply that, why aren't you mad about all the other stupid investments?
No...there is just something about this that really sets you guys off. It's really kind of interesting to watch the melt-downs.
1. As a retired science teacher/educator, I don't like anything that teaches unsubstantiated events as facts.
2. And we need to fight every stupid investment of money that the government makes. Furthermore, in my view, this violates the separation of church and state.
The question I have is...why are you guy so hell-bent on seeing the ark fail? Why does it irritate you so much?
Because it propogates falsehoods and chooses to deliberately ignore reality in favor of pushing fantasy as real. Not even the majority of Christians believe half the garbage that Ken Ham is peddling in that ark. In fact, are you a Young Earth Creationist, BF?
Seems to me you said you were not. Therefore, you should want it to fail, too, because it is horrifically misrepresenting your religion and twisting the Bible to make it say what it doesn't. But I get it. You HAVE to defend the Christian -- no matter if he's a liar -- against the atheist in every single type of circumstance even when you know we're correct.
It bothers me because it promotes science-denial and instead tries to replace science with superstition and primitivism -- it is a monument to lying, misrepresenting what evolution actually says and using taxpayer dollars to do it. "Attractions" like this seek to turn America 180 degrees in the opposite direction so, that while the rest of the world finds itself growing more prosperous, less violent, and far more knowledgeable, WE will return to a new Medieval-style dark age of fear, superstition, paranoia, and mistrust. Because that's what happens to *every* religious society that allows itself to be brainwashed by the extremists.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Don't answer back that you feel bad for the poor taxpayers! Because our government has a looooooong history of making stupid investments and blowing money. If this was simply that, why aren't you mad about all the other stupid investments?
It's not that we "feel bad" for the taxpayer. It's because taxpayer dollars should never have been used to endorse or promote Ken Ham's religion. That violates the Establishment Clause -- and that is the reason why this bothers us more than those other stupid investments. When the government no longer gives a damn about the Constitution, how long will it be before it cares so little for it that our rights begin disappearing?
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
No...there is just something about this that really sets you guys off.
Oh, stop pretending like you don't already know why it sets us off.
As I said before, it propagates lies and pretends that faith is fact -- which is the precise opposite of what faith actually is.
I doubt there's any truth at all to be had in that ridiculous park.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
It's really kind of interesting to watch the melt-downs.
Oh, so you're a sociopath? You enjoy watching people be upset?
You Christians can't even handle it when an atheist puts up a billboard or rents a few sign slots on the side of a few busses. When that happens, it makes national news and you people come out in droves to whine, moan, and complain because, you know, only YOUR opinion is allowed to be heard.
Yet when we get upset about an entire destination attraction predicated on lying to the visitors and misrepresenting science while pushing Biblical literalism and young earth creationism, we're just supposed to not care. Right?
Wow, the hypocrisy is positively disgusting. Just imagine how MAD you and your fundevangelist pals would be if atheists built a billion dollar theme park that pushes atheism and attacks Christianity everywhere and every way it can. Don't tell me you would just shrug your shoulders. In fact, the place would almost certainly be vandalized, sabotaged, protested with large groups disrupting the flow of traffic and bashing people's cars in the hopes of intimidating them not to enter the park ... and all the rest of it. The most we've done to the Ark is make videos of it and have a good laugh on YouTube.
Last edited by Shirina; 09-26-2018 at 01:12 PM..
Reason: Hypocrisy - noun. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform
1. As a retired science teacher/educator, I don't like anything that teaches unsubstantiated events as facts.
2. And we need to fight every stupid investment of money that the government makes. Furthermore, in my view, this violates the separation of church and state.
Pre Ps. And I was half a mind to say nothing as Shirina will think I'm going to ask for money, but her post ...it's like reading what I wanted to say, but said better (I decided to say so as - for once, my post came pretty close behind).
It came pretty close. But i think it was not crossing that line so much as illegal contracting practices, giveaway of public money and land through some dodgy methods from what I read, too.
Pointing to government misspends is one thing but Hamm's Ark is another. Governments are elected to handle public money. We voted, They won, get over it, as they say. This is something else. This is a private corporation, using public money for educational misinformation. This is wrong at best and illegal at worst, and only Religious immunity is protecting it from the massive shut -down, arrests, confiscation of assets returned to the town who would use it more wisely, I trust, and Hamm on the next plane to Perth, where they would arrest him at the airport and jail him for life, if they'll take my advice.
This man is a bag of poison.
And a post P.s "I doubt there's any truth at all to be had in that ridiculous park." It's all rubbish. Kiddies riding on Triceratops, 'displays about Baryma. And really beautiful models - no expense spared. But the thing that stuck in my mind was 'Lucy', Yes they have "Lucy" there. A Baboon on all fours, head thrust forward, according to the creationist claim that the spine enters the skull from the back, and that is a lie - a knowing, deliberate lie; it enters from below. It is a deliberate attempt to falsify the evidence to reduce Australopithecus to 'just another kind of chimp' on the Ark.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-26-2018 at 01:30 PM..
It came pretty close. But i think it was not crossing that line so much as illegal contracting practices, giveaway of public money and land through some dodgy methods from what I read, too.
No, it crossed the line.
However, this isn't the first time. Taxpayer dollars have been funneled into religious institutions rather routinely since Trump took office. These people do not care one iota about the Constitution or the rights of anyone but themselves -- often believing that THEY are the only ones who actually have any rights.
Even Betsy DeVoss, our incompetent, racist, homophobic, public-school-hating, and hopelessly fundy Secretary of Education has been pushing to allow tax dollars to be spent on private school tuition vouchers so we can all help indoctrinate our kids into ridiculous fantasies and also so we can go to sleep every night knowing every purchase we make, every tax bill we pay, we're helping those schools brainwash these kids into having radical and extremist right-wing political beliefs, as well.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Pointing to government misspends is one thing but Hamm's Ark is another. Governments are elected to handle public money. We voted, They won, get over it, as they say.
Even here, they didn't actually win. Donald J. Trump actually has no political legitimacy to govern the American people -- not when you consider only about 28% of the people support him AND he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes.
Now that Trump is going full-bore tyrant mode -- as much as he can until he gains control of the final branch of government when he can *really* let loose -- the evangelicals and fundamentalists are lining up to sing his praises. Why? Because they're all hoping that Trump is a Dominionist, too, and that he will strip every non-Christian of their rights -- just like the Nuremburg Laws that did the same to the Jews in Germany.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
This is something else. This is a private corporation, using public money for educational misinformation. This is wrong at best and illegal at worst, and only Religious immunity is protecting it from the massive shut -down, arrests, confiscation of assets returned to the town who would use it more wisely, I trust, and Hamm on the next plane to Perth, wherte they would arrest him at the airport and jail him for life, if they'll take my advice.
It certainly is something else. As you know I've said in a different post, America is essentially in uncharted territory. If the elections just over a month away go badly for Democrats, it will give Trump and his evangelical/fundamentalist followers 2 more years to secure even more power and perhaps wrest the Judicial branch away from the People thus giving Trump control of all three branches. So much for our checks and balances.
That's when we'll start to see things like abortion being criminalized, gay marriage rights rescinded, prayer put back in public schools, the Biblical version of creation will be taught not as a counter to evolution, but as a refutation of it ... and so on and so forth. As long as Trump can rely on the evangelical/fundamentalist vote, he'll pass any law, vote for any bill that the fundevangelist want. All anyone has to do to get what they want is sing Trump's praises -- and that is precisely what the fundevangelists are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
This man is a bag of poison.
All the bags in every Walmart across the world wouldn't be enough to contain the apologist poison.
Pre Ps. And I was half a mind to say nothing as Shirina will think I'm going to ask for money, but her post ...it's like reading what I wanted to say, but said better (I decided to say so as - for once, my post came pretty close behind).
It came pretty close. But i think it was not crossing that line so much as illegal contracting practices, giveaway of public money and land through some dodgy methods from what I read, too.
Pointing to government misspends is one thing but Hamm's Ark is another. Governments are elected to handle public money. We voted, They won, get over it, as they say. This is something else. This is a private corporation, using public money for educational misinformation. This is wrong at best and illegal at worst, and only Religious immunity is protecting it from the massive shut -down, arrests, confiscation of assets returned to the town who would use it more wisely, I trust, and Hamm on the next plane to Perth, wherte they would arrest him at the airport and jail him for life, if they'll take my advice.
This man is a bag of poison.
And a post P.s Ridib
A lot of hyperbole and poison in your post without a single fact to back up your statements. I would love to know exactly what Ken did that was illegal. The park was built with the full consent and agreement of local governments as an economic investment in the area. I seriously doubt you would have any problem if this was a free thinkers park or 100 foot statue of Darwin.
Taxpayer money is not your money. It's the government's money. The government pays for stuff all the time that I don't like. I didn't like that they bailed out banks and private companies ten years ago. According to your post, that was illegal. Besides, the park was largely funded by private donations and investors. The governments gave Ken tax incentives and breaks which is not the same as saying your money went directly to pay for a Christian theme park. I bet those tax payers are not grumbling about these changes that Ken brought to their area:
Quote:
Did you know demand for hotel rooms in Northern Kentucky is four times the national average? Why? Much of it can be attributed to tourists pouring in to visit our Ark Encounter and Creation Museum.
Did you also know:
Northern Kentucky now contributes 20 percent of the tourism economic impact for the whole state. It increased significantly since the opening of the life-size Ark in 2016.
Occupancy rates for hotels in Northern Kentucky (and even in parts of Indiana and Ohio) are in the 90 percent range, mainly due to Ark and Creation Museum visitors – revealing a critical need for more local hotels and restaurants.
For every 100 jobs created at Answers in Genesis and our two attractions, we generate 29 jobs in the community. AiG has 1,050 on staff (including seasonal workers during the busy summer months), making it a very large employer in Northern Kentucky. In addition, for every $1 million in our sales, we generate $500,000 in local revenue – that is over and above the sales tax income that goes to the state.
Some tourist attractions (like BB Riverboats) and many hotels have seen a 20 percent increase in business, which they attribute mostly to Ark and Creation Museum guests.
The state’s treasury is benefiting from multiple millions of sales tax and payroll tax dollars each year, collected not only at the Ark and Creation Museum but at a variety of hotels, restaurants, stores, etc., our guests visit.
Yes. And cannibalism is almost universally considered evil. It is certainly condemned by our Creator. Could you explain the point you're attempting to make? You're not doing very well.
First of all, yes it IS about tax money being used. Government has no business picking winners and losers with subsidies. If it wants to attract business, set up the regulations and laws in a way that all businesses know what they are, and that they are not subject to favoritism. Business likes stability.
Secondly, just the concept of what the Ark Encounter tries to portray is offensive. It is offensive to portray a myth as a truth.
Can myths provide teachings? You bet they can. One Thousand and One Nights has elements of this. So does the Harry Potter series or the books by Jane Auel. The bible can, as can the Greek, Roman and many of the Germanic myths.
That doesn't make them true; allegory and metaphors are an age old manner of getting a point across. The best marketers use stories to promote their products; facts alone do not sell that well, and hence, the myth of religion continues.
Ok then schools should no longer be allowed to teach Abiogenesis to students. It is a myth that is being portrayed as truth.
It's not right for anti-Christian atheists to get to determine what is myth or offensive. You can not factually back up the claim that the Ark story never happened.
Ok then schools should no longer be allowed to teach Abiogenesis to students. It is a myth that is being portrayed as truth.
It's not right for anti-Christian atheists to get to determine what is myth or offensive. You can not factually back up the claim that the Ark story never happened.
Why? There is indirect evidence to show that the conditions were all there, the mechansims are plausible. The evidence supports a sea -based origin of life.
What has Creationism goot as far as the Science -class is concerned? Bible -based denial.
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