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I didn't flounce off. If I spent the whole day at this forum I would never get anything done. I have rules for myself about how much time I can spend here. Not much. But then when I get here, I try to answer everything.
Wonderful. You may just have missed my post then. I refer you to my post that follows, although it wil make more sense to read it online with your message embedded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Except that we have never seen, experienced or interacted with consciousness without a brain being the seat of that consciousness. We know that if we do things to a brain, like electroshock therapy or a lobotomy, we can alter that consciousness. Using various medical devices and techniques we can track brain activity, and see how it is related to thoughts and emotions.
Every piece of evidence we have indicates that brains and consciousness are irrevocably linked. On the other hand, we have no evidence that consciousness exists independent of a brain. If you know of any evidence to the contrary, I invite you to present it.
Sure, if you decline to use medical advances like electroencephalograms. Admittedly we do not have a fine and precise understanding as to exactly when consciousness fades from a brain, but a large part of this is because consciousness is a continuum, where on can have diminished capacity through trauma, without losing all consciousness and self-awareness.
However, nothing in that supports your thoughts. Nothing at all.
How can you say this, and contradict yourself with the rest of your statements. This is a superb case of cognitive dissonance.
Please bring some of this evidence to the discussion.
Can you show that the universe is conscious? Even mystic admits that he cannot, and assumes that based upon personal experience and faith that he cannot demonstrate.
There is plentiful evidence of patients having experienced consciousness while their brain was not functioning. There is all kinds of evidence supporting consciousness without brain functioning. You atheist/materialists always find excuses to deny it all.
Your "evidence" that brains create consciousness are all associations with no implications of causality.
Physical bodies and brains enable interaction with the physical world.
Can you show that the universe is conscious? Even mystic admits that he cannot, and assumes that based upon personal experience and faith that he cannot demonstrate.
This is only partially true because of the limitations of our measurements and the fact that 95+% of our universe is beyond our scientific measurements (non-baryonic dark matter and dark energy). But through reason and philosophical elucidation, we can deduce that the consciousness produced BY the brain can NOT reside within the brain matter. It is NOT the individual neuronal "firings." It is a "consolidated neural resonance field of neuronal firings," which is NOT matter. It is like EM field (but NOT a measurable EM field) that we experience as our Self that is perceiving, measuring, interpreting, and deciding. So where it resides (locus) is in the greater universe where typical EM or EM-like manifestations reside.
Imaging technology links brain activity with mental tasks, yes. Your logical error is equating a link, an association, with causality.
If I think about a cat, a certain area of my brain is activated. So there is your link. You assume something happened in that area of the brain to cause me to think about a cat.
It never occurs to you that my thinking about a cat is what caused that brain area to become active.
Brain scientists, if they are at all in touch with reality, have to admit that they do not know how the brain and consciousness are related.
And, as always, you ask for my evidence. You are the one claiming that something is known and understood, and I am the one saying it is not understood. So why ask for my evidence?
Because it doesn't matter that it isn't understood. It only matters that there is evidence of the causal link.The hypothesis is then that the apparent causal link indicating the brain as the source is the explanation that best fits the observed data. if you then claim some equally valid hypothesis, whatit is and what is the evidence for it.
Appeal to what is not explained is not evidence for whatever idea youhave in mind.
As to thinking of a cat, who knows why they thought of it? There could be all sorts of reasons.I thought of a drink ten minutes ago, because i was thirsty. i could have thought of an earworm (at the present, it's the scherzo of Schubert's 8th).Who knows why I thought of it? Why should not knowing why it popped into my head be any reason to doubt that the brain produced the thought?
There is plentiful evidence of patients having experienced consciousness while their brain was not functioning. There is all kinds of evidence supporting consciousness without brain functioning. You atheist/materialists always find excuses to deny it all.
Your "evidence" that brains create consciousness are all associations with no implications of causality.
Physical bodies and brains enable interaction with the physical world.
You are correct, but you err, IMO by not recognizing the brain operates as a transceiver - both producing and receiving from the universe. The brain establishes the EM-like resonant neural field that enables our true Self to communicate with the physical world in a "delayed broadcast" fashion.
There is plentiful evidence of patients having experienced consciousness while their brain was not functioning. There is all kinds of evidence supporting consciousness without brain functioning. You atheist/materialists always find excuses to deny it all.
This is an assertion, it isn’t evidence. If you keep avoiding the question it would be reasonable to conclude you do not have any.
Quote:
Your "evidence" that brains create consciousness are all associations with no implications of causality.
Physical bodies and brains enable interaction with the physical world.
Au contraire. We have no evidence of consciousness without brains. You keep claiming that they exist in this manner, and you keep not providing any evidence at all.
This is only partially true because of the limitations of our measurements and the fact that 95+% of our universe is beyond our scientific measurements (non-baryonic dark matter and dark energy). But through reason and philosophical elucidation, we can deduce that the consciousness produced BY the brain can NOT reside within the brain matter. It is NOT the individual neuronal "firings." It is a "consolidated neural resonance field of neuronal firings," which is NOT matter. It is like EM field (but NOT a measurable EM field) that we experience as our Self that is perceiving, measuring, interpreting, and deciding. So where it resides (locus) is in the greater universe where typical EM or EM-like manifestations reside.
Again, a claim without evidence. If we cannot measure 95% of our universe, you cannot claim knowledge of its nature.
You are correct, but you err, IMO by not recognizing the brain operates as a transceiver - both producing and receiving from the universe. The brain establishes the EM-like resonant neural field that enables our true Self to communicate with the physical world in a "delayed broadcast" fashion.
There you go,'goodforNothing'. The radio-transceiver theory. Or excuse - why universal consciousness doesn't show universal consciousness all the time. How does that that appeal to you?
What the
How did you go from sub classification of plants to insects. Of the 5 classifications of plants you will find fungus, and algae. Yes they have certain attributes similar to animals in terms of metabolics. But the cell biology is still very different from the animal kingdom.
Are you implying insects are autonomous?
If so you should watch some YouTube videos about ant and bee keepers.
Fungi are plants?
Algae are plants?
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