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There are many reasons for thinking that real AI is impossible. And only one reason for thinking it is possible -- materialist philosophy says that it must be possible.
Another dodge as you avoid answering questions or providing any evidence for your claims.
We certainly don’t know if true AI is possible. The answer is a definite maybe. Please provide your reasons for claiming it is impossible.
I ask again. What is involved in addition to the material? You keep saying this, but you have never described it.
What is it? How do you know? How does it interact with the material? Where does it come from?
Do you have answers to any of this?
We don't know everything. That has been the point. You think you know all about what the universe is made of. You don't.
There are many theories about higher order substances. I already mentioned Bohm's theory of implicate orders. There is digital physics which I already mentioned. There are the higher order dimensions that are assumed in physics.
Do you think it's reasonable to assume nothing exists except what science already knows about? That is the foundation of materialism -- the arrogant belief that human intelligence has everything basically figured out. And all experiences that suggest otherwise are assumed to be hallucinations and delusions.
We don't know everything. That has been the point. You think you know all about what the universe is made of. You don't.
There are many theories about higher order substances. I already mentioned Bohm's theory of implicate orders. There is digital physics which I already mentioned. There are the higher order dimensions that are assumed in physics.
Do you think it's reasonable to assume nothing exists except what science already knows about? That is the foundation of materialism -- the arrogant belief that human intelligence has everything basically figured out. And all experiences that suggest otherwise are assumed to be hallucinations and delusions.
You badly misunderstand science and materialism, to the point of creating a straw man argument.
Materialists don’t think that everything has been figured out or that science has determined everything. Not even close. I have never heard anybody coming close to claiming this. In fact, people with skeptical, materialist viewpoints seem more likely to admit that they don’t know when compared to other groups, particularly the goddidit types.
However, you keep asserting confidence in something that you seem unable or unwilling to describe. To me that seems quite foolish. You seem to be searching for the boundaries of our knowledge, then claiming that because we don’t have answers to all of your questions, that you are justified in believing anything that strikes your fancy. The search for knowledge anf truth doesn’t work that way, and in fact, it seems that you are accusing materialists of the very same logical flaws 5hat you possess in abundant quantity.
You badly misunderstand science and materialism, to the point of creating a straw man argument.
Materialists don’t think that everything has been figured out or that science has determined everything. Not even close. I have never heard anybody coming close to claiming this. In fact, people with skeptical, materialist viewpoints seem more likely to admit that they don’t know when compared to other groups, particularly the goddidit types.
However, you keep asserting confidence in something that you seem unable or unwilling to describe. To me that seems quite foolish. You seem to be searching for the boundaries of our knowledge, then claiming that because we don’t have answers to all of your questions, that you are justified in believing anything that strikes your fancy. The search for knowledge anf truth doesn’t work that way, and in fact, it seems that you are accusing materialists of the very same logical flaws 5hat you possess in abundant quantity.
You have completely misunderstood everything I said.
Another dodge as you avoid answering questions or providing any evidence for your claims.
We certainly don’t know if true AI is possible. The answer is a definite maybe. Please provide your reasons for claiming it is impossible.
One reason it's impossible, for example: The brains does not generate consciousness and intelligence. Therefore, an artificial brain would not generate consciousness and intelligence.
But an artificial human brain has never been created anyway.
Before an artificial brain can be created, the natural brain would have to be well understood. It is not well understood. It is not even poorly understood. It is not understood. Remember the connectionists who thought they had finally figured out how the brain works?
Materialists assume the brain generates consciousness and intelligence, so they assume an artificial brain would also. But oops, there are no artificial brains. There will be soon? When?
Since I am not a materialist I don't have to hold my breath waiting for artificial brains, because I know there won't ever be any. But you are waiting, and assuming.
One reason it's impossible, for example: The brains does not generate consciousness and intelligence. Therefore, an artificial brain would not generate consciousness and intelligence.
You have claimed this several times, and I have asked you to provide evidence of your assertion. To date, you have been unable to provide any evidence to support your claim. if you don’t have any evidence, why should we believe you?
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But an artificial human brain has never been created anyway.
True, which is why I said in an earlier post that we don’t know if true AI is possible.
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Before an artificial brain can be created, the natural brain would have to be well understood. It is not well understood. It is not even poorly understood. It is not understood. Remember the connectionists who thought they had finally figured out how the brain works?
No, we don’t need to fully understand the brain to create AI. Or at least we probably don’t. Computer based AI is a different thing, and doesn’t need to replicate an organic brain exactly. It does not even need to be quite as smart or quite as self-aware as the typical human to qualify as a AI. A relatively stupid intelligence with limited emotional capacity would still qualify as AI.
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Materialists assume the brain generates consciousness and intelligence, so they assume an artificial brain would also. But oops, there are no artificial brains. There will be soon? When?
No idea. I never said soon. I never said it was possible. I said maybe. Please stop creating a straw man based on what you wished I said, and try answering what I actually said.
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Since I am not a materialist I don't have to hold my breath waiting for artificial brains, because I know there won't ever be any. But you are waiting, and assuming.
Despite your repirition, this is not the case.
Again, you focus on a straw man, claiming that I have written that AI is possible and will happen soon. In reality, I simply asked you to prove that it is impossible, which is the claim you made.
I ask again. On what evidence do you base your claim that AI is impossible?
then comes the storm with no name.
without reason or excuse it makes waste of old sam.
like a dog in a race it's goal is to unleash power.
does a hurricane give love to the needs of many.
I know better and you should also.
shake the dust from your feet and do not look back nor forward.
once the offense has occured and the judgement sealed.
I always love it when theists post nonsense in Biblical verse to make it sound like holy Writ.
You have completely misunderstood everything I said.
He has understood you perfectly well. You have declared a thing to be Impossible. That is a huge claim to make and we can be pretty that you are declaring it impossible for the same reason that theists declare anything 'Impossible' - to win the discussion by Fiat.
Another invalid argument is 'science doesn't know everything'. This is irrelevant and proves nothing. In fact, you make no argument at all. Well...you do, but a fallacious one. The gap for god fallacy is behind that.
I might suggest that one reason that AI doesn't seem like human thinking is that it doesn't have the baggage of evolved instinct programmed in.
You then went on to declare that it isn't possible to create a computer replica of human intelligence because the machine would generate the intelligence whereas the human brain does not. This is a claim that you have failed to substantiate, so you are basing one assertion on nothing but another assertion. For someone hapy to wave away all 'our' arguments on the ground that we have 'materialist bias' your own arguments seem to be based on nothing but bias.
I hope you're watching this, Mystic, because this is just what it sounds like, arguing with you.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-24-2018 at 01:22 AM..
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