Mormon beliefs (virtual, demon, different, before)

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by NDak15

Big difference between racial slurs and using an expression to describe people irresponsibly reproducing like animals. Nice try though.

Well clearly when you were born, you were pooped out.

Now, since that's a phrase you're defending...stick with it when you describe yourself. As a teacher and later principal, I would have expected to have been fired for comparing children to poop. I don't care whether someone is rich or poor, Mormon or Baptist or atheist, or white or of color...children are not pooped out of bodies.

You'll want the last word, so I'll say no more.

[TaxPhd]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

TaxPhd, like jencam, you are here for one reason and one reason only -- and that is to attack and misrepresent Mormonism.

I have neither attacked nor misrepresented Mormonism. Everything that I have posted in this thread is 100% true and accurate. If you believe that the questions I have asked are “attacking Mormonism,” you need to get a thicker skin.

It doesn't matter what I say or how I say it, you accuse me of lying. I'm not a liar and I have no desire to mislead anyone about what my religion teaches. I know for sure that I am more than capable of expressing myself and that my posts leave very little room for ambiguity. You, on the other hand, have constantly accused me of saying things I have never said and denied that I've said things anyone on the forum can clearly see that I have said.

When I have accused you of lying, it has been because you have said something that is demonstrably untrue. And I have demonstrated that in EVERY instance.

I realize there's a drawback to my decision. I will no longer be able to see the misinformation the two of you are posting, and there is always a risk that people may believe you.

Again, I have never lied in a thread about Mormonism (or anything else). The truth of what I say can easily be verified by anyone who cares to do so.

The biggest problem in threads about Mormonism is that so many people won’t do any independent investigation, and actually take what you say at face value. Moderator cut: Personal attack

[TaxPhd]

Below are my posts in this thread. 100% true and accurate. No attacking, no harassment.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

If someone is not Mormon during their life, and doesn’t have Mormon saving ordnance’s performed for them, or if someone is not Mormon during their life and doesn’t accept Mormon saving ordances performed vicariously on their behalf, where will they end up? Will they end up in Mormon Heaven (Celestial kingdom)?

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Please provide links that support your claim. Please understand that links from specific Mormon sites carry no weight.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

There is NO SIMILARITY beteeen a Christain discussing the spirit and the soul, and a Mormon acheiving “exaltation.”

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

What you have described is in NO WAY what Mormons actually do. A Mormon, with the 60+ years of experience that you claim, would know this.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

That is not correct. There is a SIGIFICANT difference between “Eternal life” and “living for eternity” or “immortality.” There is no “Eternal Life” outside of the Celestial kingdom.

“Eternal life” outside of the Celestial Kingdom doesn’t exist. It isn’t a “Thing.” It would be reasonable to expect that the self appointed Guaranteer of al things of all things Mormon on CD to understand that.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

That’s not the truth.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Oh yes, I read it. Your response in no way addresses the issue.

Again, it is VERY clear that Mormon Doctrine teaches that achieving the Celestial Kingdom (Mormon Heaven) is conditioned upon EITHER Being Mormon and doing Mormon saving ordnance’s while one is alive, or accepting Mormonism and Mormon Saving ordnance’s performed vicariously on ones behalf after one dies.

If what I have described previously ISNT correct, please provide the correct analysis/interpretation of what Mormon doctrine actually says.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

As you know, I understand the doctrine very well. My post was specifically addressing this statement of yours:



I want to make it clear for everyone in this thread that going to the Celestial Kingdom (Mormon Heaven, for those that don’t know) is conditioned upon either being baptized in the Mormon Church while one is alive, or accepting a Mormon proxy baptism after one dies.

To me, that sounds very much like “the only people who have any hope of going to the Celestial Kingdom are Mormons.” Is it exactly the same? No. But it is fundamentally the same.

Whether or not you were being accurate when you said “that is simply not what we believe,” I’ll leave to others to decide for themselves.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Who is able to go to the Celestial kingdom without a Mormon baptism? Who is able to go to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom without a Mormon temple endowment?

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Everything in Thoreau424‘s post has been taught as doctrine in the Mormon church.

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

Everything mentioned by the OP was actively taught as doctrine in the Mormon church.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

I have neither attacked nor misrepresented Mormonism. Everything that I have posted in this thread is 100% true and accurate. If you believe that the questions I have asked are “attacking Mormonism,” you need to get a thicker skin.
When I have accused you of lying, it has been because you have said something that is demonstrably untrue. And I have demonstrated that in EVERY instance.

Without knowing her state of mind, you cannot accuse her of lying. You can accuse her of being inaccurate, but lying is a specific willful act that you cannot ascertain without psychic powers. The problem with your claim to "100% true and accurate" is that even within Mormonism there are differences as with any large group of human beings. If you were NOT attacking, you would acknowledge the potential diversity within Mormonism. Instead, you seem to seek to denigrate and mock or ridicule or belittle Mormon beliefs based on whatever sources you deem credible and representative pretending it is monolithic. Calling her a spinmaster and liar is obviously a personal attack.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

You have been entirely sincere and honest in your posts, Katz. I appreciate your willingness to explain your faith to the best of your ability and understanding and I doubt that I am alone. Regrettably, this tag team of TaxPhd and jencam borders on harassment and denigration of a religion. I am surprised that the thread is still open. Thank you for your participation in the forum, Katz.

Thanks, Mystic.

[phetaroi]

The more I see Mormons attacked, the more I like them. They must have great character to tolerate what they do.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Without knowing her state of mind, you cannot accuse her of lying. You can accuse her of being inaccurate, but lying is a specific willful act that you cannot ascertain without psychic powers. The problem with your claim to "100% true and accurate" is that even within Mormonism there are differences as with any large group of human beings. If you were NOT attacking, you would acknowledge the potential diversity within Mormonism. Instead, you seem to seek to denigrate and mock or ridicule or belittle Mormon beliefs based on whatever sources you deem credible and representative pretending it is monolithic. Calling her a spinmaster and liar is obviously a personal attack.

By the way, if anyone following this thread is undecided as to whether I have been lying or not, please let me know and I would be happy to try to clarify anything I've said on this thread which may have been misconstrued.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

The more I see Mormons attacked, the more I like them. They must have great character to tolerate what they do.

Thanks, phetaroi. I appreciate that very much.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

By the way, if anyone following this thread is undecided as to whether I have been lying or not, please let me know and I would be happy to try to clarify anything I've said on this thread which may have been misconstrued.

no, I think you are honest. People discussing a religion that both parties claim to know, usually, close the gaps quickly. i say the mormon base premise of jesus and their profit are way off base but that doesn't mean you are dishonest. Nor does it mean that some of your beliefs are not silly.

i don't base siding with you just because "you are attacked", I side with you based on the validity of claims and mormons are christians that follow a less valid interpretation of the bible.

"edictate" doesn't determine the validity of a claim. People that pick sides based on a perception and not validity of claims are part of the problem.

[TaxPhd]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Without knowing her state of mind, you cannot accuse her of lying. You can accuse her of being inaccurate, but lying is a specific willful act that you cannot ascertain without psychic powers.

You are correct. I should have said that she has said things that are demonstrably untrue, and that someone with her claimed experience and knowledge of Mormonism would know that they are untrue. It is entirely possible that she doesn’t have the level of expertise that she claims, and that she didn’t know that what she was saying is untrue.

The problem with your claim to "100% true and accurate" is that even within Mormonism there are differences as with any large group of human beings.

There is no problem with my statement, and “differences in groups” doesn’t render it inaccurate. When I say that something has been taught as doctrine in the Mormon church, it’s because it has. It is a question of fact, and its truth or falsehood isn’t dependent upon someone’s belief, or “differences in groups.”

If you were NOT attacking, you would acknowledge the potential diversity within Mormonism. Instead, you seem to seek to denigrate and mock or ridicule or belittle Mormon beliefs based on whatever sources you deem credible and representative pretending it is monolithic.

My “sources” are primarily my own personal experiences from my many years as a member of the Mormon church.

Calling her a spinmaster and liar is obviously a personal attack.

I have done nothing different than what she has done to me. I generally deal with people in the same manner that they treat me. My interactions with Katzpur are no exception.