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Therefore, if Katz would feel better upon hearing of my earthly demise by having me baptized by proxy, it would not bother me in the least.
I would die happier, knowing she would feel better.
Aw, TD, you're just plain nice, aren't you? Actually, since you're not one of my relatives, I'm afraid I can't do that. But I do appreciate your kind words.
If someone accepted the Baptism but not a sealing, would they not be limited to the Terrestrial Kingdom?
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My point was that if we actually believed what jencam said we believe, proxy work for the dead would be essentially useless as one would have to have been baptized LDS during his/her life. We believe that these ordinances, if done posthumously, have the same effect as if they had been done when the individual was alive -- provided, of course, that he/she actually accepts the work once it has been done.
Never said that. I have posted quite a bit how the ordinances Mormons are supposed to do on earth can be done for them by proxy after death. And that they can be done for people who were not Mormons on earth.
I see my mistake in flipping the scenario using the same wording in one post. What I had meant to discuss were people who do not accept it.
And this, by the way, is why I completely revised my one post. I was completely confused by your comments since they appeared to be contradictory. That was when you said "I'll go ahead and lock this version of your post in before you edit it again."
Actually, you're wrong again. Temple marriage is required for Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom. It is not required for entrance into the Celestial Kingdom and the blessings of living there eternally. Also, no woman's eternal destiny is dependent on her husband. As long as I am faithful and obedient to God's commandments, my husband's choices will not affect my eternal life.
Right. The limits of one's reach depend on temple marriage. Highest level cannot be obtained w/o it. So say I am a Mormon and I use the phrasing 'my eternal life depends on getting temple married'. I do not mean that my ability to HAVE eternal life is dependent on that, I mean the KIND of eternal life.
Right. The limits of one's reach depend on temple marriage. Highest level cannot be obtained w/o it. So say I am a Mormon and I use the phrasing 'my eternal life depends on getting temple married'. I do not mean that my ability to HAVE eternal life is dependent on that, I mean the KIND of eternal life.
The correct LDS terminology for any kind of eternal life outside the Celestial Kingdom is "immortality."
Like I would not care if someone took my car after i died. But that doesn't mean we let it happen.
Someone may have use of your car after you die. It's not the same thing at all.
Let's say I had a couple of extra tickets to a concert, and the artist was somebody I really, really, really liked. You'd told me before that you don't care for that artist, but because I have these extra tickets and feel very strongly that you'd enjoy the concert if you decided to change your mind, I stick them in an envelope and mail them to you. I then put your name on a list of people who have received free tickets, just in case another of your friends decides to send you a couple. That way he knows not to send them since you can obviously only use one set of tickets. When you get them, you can either throw them away or decide to go to the concert after all. Either way, you don't have to tell me what you've done and I'll probably never know. It was, after all, just an offer made to be nice. Regardless of what anyone has to say about the ethics of posthumous baptisms by proxy, this is essentially how we Mormons look at it.
Also, no woman's eternal destiny is dependent on her husband. As long as I am faithful and obedient to God's commandments, my husband's choices will not affect my eternal life. I am answerable directly to God, as is my husband. I am sure you'll tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do. Furthermore, I am being 100% honest, as God is my witness.
A Mormon woman cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom on her own. The man must be worthy. I don't think that a woman can rise higher than her husband, even if she is more righteous than he is.
My understanding if that a woman's standing and level of blessings and so forth are tied to the worthiness level of her husband. Whether you use that terminology or not, the point is the same.
OK, so sometimes 'The Celestial Kingdom' refers to all three levels and other times it means only the highest level. Which one do you mean here?
The term "Celestial Kingdom" refers to the highest degree of glory of the three named kingdoms (Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial). The Celestial Kingdom is said to be further subdivided into other degrees of glory. These don't actually have names that we know of, but when an individual receives the highest degree of glory possible, that state of existence is called Exaltation.
Mormons sometimes do use the words interchangeably, particularly in conversations among themselves, with the unspoken assumption that they are referring to Exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom and not just the Celestial Kingdom itself. It's kind of like you'll hear a lot of Christians use the terms "spirit" and "soul" interchangeably. But when pressed, they will acknowledge that there is a difference between them.
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Also, what you do mean when you use the phrase eternal life?
"Eternal Life" is basically another way of saying "Exaltation." It means living forever in the presence of God and having the potential to eventually become like Him. Immortality is simply to live forever as a resurrected being with a body that is no longer subject to death, disease or deformity. We believe that all human beings, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, will have immortality.
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