Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There is no tag team. TaxPhd and I do not know each other and I did not 'call on her for support'.
There is no harassment or denigrating either. There is disagreement on Doctrine and terminology. Something that is not hard to sort out if one is willing to provide support for one's statements.
'I am a reliable source' is the strangest method of debate I have ever seen.
TaxPhD I will 'call on you' for a question. It was stated upthread that people who do not accept LDS Baptism in life or after death go to the Terrestrial Kingdom rather than Telestial and that doesn't square with this LDS source discussing that topic. https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines...ition?lang=eng
TaxPhD I will 'call on you' for a question. It was stated upthread that people who do not accept LDS Baptism in life or after death go to the Terrestrial Kingdom rather than Telestial and that doesn't square with this LDS source discussing that topic. https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines...ition?lang=eng
If you’ll quote the post(s) you’re referring to, I’ll be happy to address it.
If you’ll quote the post(s) you’re referring to, I’ll be happy to address it.
Those who reject the prophets in this life and then accept the gospel in the spirit world will inherit the terrestrial kingdom (see D&C 76:73–74; 138:32).
Those who profess to follow Christ or the prophets but willfully reject the gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant will inherit the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:99–101)
Seems clear that those who reject the Baptism after death are relegated to the Telestial.
You are correct. I should have said that she has said things that are demonstrably untrue, and that someone with her claimed experience and knowledge of Mormonism would know that they are untrue. It is entirely possible that she doesn’t have the level of expertise that she claims and that she didn’t know that what she was saying is untrue.
There is no problem with my statement, and “differences in groups” doesn’t render it inaccurate. When I say that something has been taught as doctrine in the Mormon church, it’s because it has. It is a question of fact, and its truth or falsehood isn’t dependent upon someone’s belief, or “differences in groups.”
You seem to discount the very kinds of differences among groups that virtually define all of humanity. Your pretense that there is complete understanding and agreement about beliefs among every Mormon is simply preposterous. People are simply not built that way.
Quote:
My “sources” are primarily my own personal experiences from my many years as a member of the Mormon church.
Katz's “sources” are primarily her own personal experiences from her many years as a member of the Mormon church. How are your experiences superior to hers?
Well, you've misunderstood it, and that's all I'm going to say. I'm tired of you trying to tell me I don't understand my own religion. If what you are saying is true, then the only people who have any hope of going to the Celestial Kingdom are Mormons, and that is simply not what we believe.
Mystic, here is one example of something that is not up to individual interpretation. Mormon Doctrine states that only those who take the Baptism and the other saving ordinances from a person with authority to administer them (which is only a Mormon authority) are able to go to the Celestial Kingdom. (What others refer to as Heaven). Period. Before death, after death, either way this is 100% essential.
Word play is not helpful in discussing that if our intent is the truth. Whether a person who was not a Mormon on earth but accepted the Baptism by a Mormon authority and the temple marriage ordinance, etc. after death is called now a Mormon is immaterial. The bottom line is in their belief this is the only way to enter the Celestial Kingdom.
How is taking the Mormon Baptism and other Mormon Ordinances NOT becoming a Mormon after death? It is in life.
It goes further into word play when we realize that 'The gospel of Jesus Christ' can be heard by a non-Mormon to mean the gospel as they understand it. A Mormon can if they choose be very legalistic in their wording so that the reader goes 'oh, ok, yes you are saying we are ALL saved, that is what I believe too', when no, that is not true. The word 'saved' has a different meaning in Mormonism as well. As does Heaven, Eternal Life, on and on.
There is no tag team. TaxPhd and I do not know each other and I did not 'call on her for support'.
There is no harassment or denigrating either. There is disagreement on Doctrine and terminology. Something that is not hard to sort out if one is willing to provide support for one's statements.
'I am a reliable source' is the strangest method of debate I have ever seen.
But you will again notice that you are being criticized for your harshness on the topic of Mormonism.
Those who reject the prophets in this life and then accept the gospel in the spirit world will inherit the terrestrial kingdom (see D&C 76:73–74; 138:32).
Those who profess to follow Christ or the prophets but willfully reject the gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant will inherit the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:99–101)
Seems clear that those who reject the Baptism after death are relegated to the Telestial.
I’m sorry, I get the scriptural references. What are the posts in this thread that you are referring to?
I’m sorry, I get the scriptural references. What are the posts in this thread that you are referring to?
I am referring to the statement that those who reject the Baptism after death go to the Terrestrial Kingdom. That doesn't seem to square with what I posted from an LDS source. What I posted seems to clearly say they go to Telestial.
You seem to discount the very kinds of differences among groups that virtually define all of humanity.
I don’t discount that at all. But differences among groups don’t change the truthfulness (or lack threof) of a statement
Quote:
Your pretense that there is complete understanding and agreement about beliefs among every Mormon is simply preposterous.
That has NEVER been my pretense. On the contrary, I have frequently pointed out that there are many Mormon doctrinal issues that aren’t understood by a great many Mormons, and there is a lot of disagreement among Mormon church members.
My posts don’t address what a Mormon believes. My posts address doctrines and teachings of the church.
Quote:
People are simply not built that way. Katz's “sources” are primarily her own personal experiences from her many years as a member of the Mormon church. How are your experiences superior to hers?
I have frequently suggested that participants in these threads undertake their own investigation when there is disagreement between myself and Katzpur (or anyone else). My claims are generally easily verifiable, and they are always true and accurate. When I have claimed that something stated by Katzpur is false, I can back it up. Always. Katzpur can’t say the same about when she has claimed that I’m not telling the truth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
