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And yes--it's his opinion. But since all morality is based on his character -- his opinions -- since he CREATED the universe, it's a big deal. We can know that it's wrong because he said it is. He then also wrote it on our hearts, referred to by some her as the "Natural Law", and it's what Paul stated in Romans 1. We know it's wrong. Many simply suppress the knowledge of it, and other things he's commanded, but we know it's wrong.
Round and round. The evidence makes more sense if this is an evolved instinct - seen in animals - who have their likes and dislikes and empathy, too, just developed more using reason in a complex society.
That would make more sense than positing a god - given diktat by the boss - even if he did create everything, even without cindining permitting or even doing or commanding events that contradict the morality that you claim is his nature.
Don't you see that that you are battling to maintain a faith claim that makes no sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
So what is the standard for morality? If you believe murder to be always wrong, then what is the standard that declares it so. I'll be waiting.
We've done it. Nobody wants to be murdered. You really don't get this? Human rights mean nothing to you?
probably not. But I do have Faith - that people can change. Some have seen that their faith - based belief makes no sense and have rethought. It can happen. But even if not, others will see and be ready for similar morality - based apologetics for the god -claim and will not be taken in.
Just as 20 or so years agom argument from morality was considered big one for Christianity. It is pretty dead now, but the Bapfuns kees shaking the rotting corpse and swearing that it lives.
And you'll be waiting awhile, because no answer will satisfy you. You're either moral, or you're not.
Again...what's the word MEAN?
That's the rub. That's the basic, simple question that keeps getting asked, but neither you, nor anyone else can answer. What does moral MEAN?
I'm not asking if a behavior is moral, or a person is moral. I'm asking you to define morality, and explain why your definition is the one to use. Without giving an opinion. Document your answer and explain it.
I don't recall God ever declaring murder wrong. It would in any case be just his opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
10 Commandments.
And yes--it's his opinion. But since all morality is based on his character -- his opinions -- since he CREATED the universe, it's a big deal. We can know that it's wrong because he said it is. He then also wrote it on our hearts, referred to by some her as the "Natural Law", and it's what Paul stated in Romans 1. We know it's wrong. Many simply suppress the knowledge of it, and other things he's commanded, but we know it's wrong.
Ten commandments - here they are;
You shall have no other Gods before me
You shall not make for yourselves an idol
You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy
Honor your father and your mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not give false testimony
You shall not covet
Care to show me exactly where God is saying murder is wrong?
So it's in God's character.
Where shall I begin? How about my all time favorite. The killing of all the Egyptian firstborns. It's in God's character.
That's the rub. That's the basic, simple question that keeps getting asked, but neither you, nor anyone else can answer. What does moral MEAN?
I'm not asking if a behavior is moral, or a person is moral. I'm asking you to define morality, and explain why your definition is the one to use. Without giving an opinion. Document your answer and explain it.
Well let's look at what Websters says, shall we?
mor·al | \ ˈmȯr-əl , ˈmär- \
Definition of moral (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ETHICAL
moral judgments
b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior
a moral poem
c: conforming to a standard of right behavior
took a moral position on the issue though it cost him the nomination
d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment
a moral obligation
e: capable of right and wrong action
a moral agent
2: probable though not proved : VIRTUAL
a moral certainty
3: perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect
a moral victory
moral support
moral noun
mor·al | \ ˈmȯr-əl , ˈmär-; sense 3 is mə-ˈral \
Definition of moral (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: the moral significance or practical lesson (as of a story)
The moral of the story is to be satisfied with what you have.
b: a passage pointing out usually in conclusion the lesson to be drawn from a story
2morals plural
a: moral practices or teachings : modes of conduct
an authoritative code of morals has force and effect when it expresses the settled customs of a stable society
— Walter Lippmann
b: ETHICS
the science of morals endeavors to divide men into the good and the bad
— J. W. Krutch.
Sorta dances around what we we all know about but just as Christian apologists do with science and logic they demand (when they lost all other apologetics) to know why those things count (as opposed to mere faith -claims).
I have tried to explain the posited biological-evolutionary and social evolutionary basis for all the morality you can expect and explained the evidence for how it originated.
Again - if that is not good enough for you and you have a faith -based preference prefer the opinion of a single being (name your own god), even if he is the Big Boss, then we can only leave you to your denial.
probably not. But I do have Faith - that people can change. Some have seen that their faith - based belief makes no sense and have rethought. It can happen. But even if not, others will see and be ready for similar morality - based apologetics for the god -claim and will not be taken in.
Just as 20 or so years agom argument from morality was considered big one for Christianity. It is pretty dead now, but the Bapfuns kees shaking the rotting corpse and swearing that it lives.
That's the rub. That's the basic, simple question that keeps getting asked, but neither you, nor anyone else can answer. What does moral MEAN?
I'm not asking if a behavior is moral, or a person is moral. I'm asking you to define morality, and explain why your definition is the one to use. Without giving an opinion. Document your answer and explain it.
Any google search of a good dictionary will render you your answer if that's what you're after. Other than that, I got nothing.
mor·al | \ ˈmȯr-əl , ˈmär- \
Definition of moral (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ETHICAL
moral judgments
b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior
a moral poem
c: conforming to a standard of right behavior
took a moral position on the issue though it cost him the nomination
d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment
a moral obligation
e: capable of right and wrong action
a moral agent
2: probable though not proved : VIRTUAL
a moral certainty
3: perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect
a moral victory
moral support
moral noun
mor·al | \ ˈmȯr-əl , ˈmär-; sense 3 is mə-ˈral \
Definition of moral (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: the moral significance or practical lesson (as of a story)
The moral of the story is to be satisfied with what you have.
b: a passage pointing out usually in conclusion the lesson to be drawn from a story
2morals plural
a: moral practices or teachings : modes of conduct
an authoritative code of morals has force and effect when it expresses the settled customs of a stable society
— Walter Lippmann
b: ETHICS
the science of morals endeavors to divide men into the good and the bad
— J. W. Krutch.
Sorta dances around what we we all know about but just as Christian apologists do with science and logic they demand (when they lost all other apologetics) to know why those things count (as opposed to mere faith -claims).
I have tried to explain the posited biological-evolutionary and social evolutionary basis for all the morality you can expect and explained the evidence for how it originated.
Again - if that is not good enough for you and you have a faith -based preference prefer the opinion of a single being (name your own god), even if he is the Big Boss, then we can only leave you to your denial.
Somehow I don't think that's what he's looking for. Exactly what he's looking for is quite beyond me.
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probably not. But I do have Faith - that people can change. Some have seen that their faith - based belief makes no sense and have rethought. It can happen. But even if not, others will see and be ready for similar morality - based apologetics for the god -claim and will not be taken in.
