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It amazes me how believers such as yourself, who rely solely and totally on a bunch of rubbish written thousands of years ago full of contradictions, and falsity, amounting to nothing more than a Fairy Tale, as their reference material would or could legitimately judge other's position which are based on rational thought and natural law.
As I said before, you are clueless because your "encyclopedia" is but a Fairy Tale from which no clues can be derived. It is rubbish.
And it amazes me how you believe morality is simply the result of a fickle society that is continuously changing.
How is this "Natural Law" so evident to some, but not others?
For the record, you sound like you'd agree with the first chapter of Romans. We know what is right because God wrote it on our hearts. You want to call it the "Natural Law"? Ok. Sure. Fine.
Paul states that the unrighteous suppress the truth because their sin is more fun.
The salty one answered, but I'll have my pennyworth.
Natural Law is in fact educated instinct. Haven't you seen a teacher telling some kid in the play-yard 'How would you like it if somebody did that to you?' and you see him suddenly get the point - even if he later later thinks "But if I am stronger than everyone else, they can't".
What is 'written on our hearts' is evolved instinct. The rules of society have to be learned. They are written on our hearts by society, not a god, and that's evident enough. Otherwise there would be no need for Bible -teachings.
Yes. Well I'd have told Paul to go trundle his hoop, just as I'd have told the Bishop of Southwark and Saint Mugg, because 'Life of Brian' is more fun than their dismal preaching.
And if you still haven't got where fun stops and immorality begins, it's where your right to swing ends - the point of contact with somebody's nose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
And it amazes me how you believe morality is simply the result of a fickle society that is continuously changing.
So do you. You even make it clear that the directives in the Bible change. You just say that it's all down to God. But then, as you say, we see God fail. So you have to blame it all on humans. Unless you can't, like slavery or slaughter in the Bible and then you excuse it by saying it was what men did or it was ok because God did it, pretty much at the same time. Don't you see how absurd your supposed Biblical morality is? It isn't a morality or coherent ethical system at all but ad hoc slapping away any doubt and question to maintain your faith in your religion, and that's all it's ever been about with you and your Ilk.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-29-2021 at 09:30 AM..
The salty one answered, but I'll have my pennyworth.
Natural Law is in fact educated instinct. Haven't you seen a teacher telling some kid in the play-yard 'How would you like it if somebody did that to you?' and you see him suddenly get the point - even if he later later thinks "But if I am stronger than everyone else, they can't".
What is written on our hearts os evolved instinct. The rules of society have to be learned. They are written on our hearts by society, not a god, and that's evident enough. Otherwise there would be no need for Bible -teachings.
Yes. Well I'd have told Paul to go trundle his hoop, just as I'd have told the Bishop of Southwark and Saint Mugg, because 'Life of Brian' is more fun than their dismal preaching.
And if you still haven't got where fun stops and immorality begins, it's where your right to swing ends - the point of contact with somebody's nose.
Still haven't answered the question of other societies deciding differently. Or our society changing to determine some things that are evil are moral or good.
Still haven't answered the question of other societies deciding differently. Or our society changing to determine some things that are evil are moral or good.
It's explained by that thing you don't believe in: evolution.
Some people - indeed most people - have grown intellectually, physically and spiritually over the centuries.
Straightening them out, you mean. The very good point was made that the Bible says slavery is wrong - if it's to the Israelites. Slavery rules (supposedly the word of God) make particular rules for Israelites owning Hebrew slaves. Foreign ones, you can do what you like. If they are the rules of men of the time, fine, then you are already cherry -picking what's godly in the Bible and what isn't - according the morals we all use today. At least you are not throwing all morality into the bin and saying 'God can do as he likes' - as some do.
'Inspiration' of course doesn't get out of godly or of men, either way. If it's wring, it's wrong and if it's immoral it's immoral.
And it comes to the same thing. This god as imagined by believers today would know the current thinking on slavery today and in 150 years' time. And yet either condones slavery or approves it. Even though it's clear from Exodus that everybody back then knew they didn't want it done to them.
I see no way out of it other than denial.
And, lady if it wasn't for the pogroms, I might not be here. That does not make them something I should approve of.
Yes, very bad. Such stupidity does not help your reputation.
I'd certainly hate to be in the position of being emotionally obliged to defend the indefensible and deny the undeniable.
What I bolded -- you're right. And that shows a lack of principles. And it is virtually the same argument used in the American South for centuries. Slavery is okay...for Black folks. Jim Crow is okay for Black folks. Segregation is okay for Black folks. I guess the Golden Rule for christians is "Do unto others" (hard stop).
What's missing in christianity is Matthew 25:40: paraphrased: Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me.
Welcome to the discussion. We've gotten past this point. Now please explain why that is true.
No, to be honest, we haven't gotten past that point. Because you still keep making excuses for "biblical slavery". You would have fit right into the "Old South" where most churches -- including the Baptist Church, Baptist Fundie -- supported slavery. All your recent protestations about slavery sound very hollow.
No, to be honest, we haven't gotten past that point. Because you still keep making excuses for "biblical slavery". You would have fit right into the "Old South" where most churches -- including the Baptist Church, Baptist Fundie -- supported slavery. All your recent protestations about slavery sound very hollow.
It's not my fault that you can't seem to understand basic Biblical truths. No one here is suggesting that slavery in the "Old South" was good. No one is suggesting that race-based chattel slavery is good. You are continuing to dishonestly misrepresent me. That's really quite sad that you feel you have to do that. I'm sorry that you're such a horrible debater that you can't honestly represent others. So I'm done. I will not be engaged in your stupid reindeer games anymore.
I'm just asking someone to give me an explanation of why some things are immoral without giving an opinion. STILL waiting, as it's gone completely over the head of anyone that has attempted to on this thread.
We've REPEATEDLY given you the answer to that: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Apparently you didn't learn the right things in elementary school.
Last edited by phetaroi; 01-29-2021 at 11:01 AM..
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I'd certainly hate to be in the position of being emotionally obliged to defend the indefensible and deny the undeniable.