Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Denial, especially for personal psychological reasons, is far too powerful to ever be overcome . . . even by overwhelming evidence. So I consider it a waste of time to confront your massive denial of a fairly obvious reality (Jesus) that has encompassed over 2000 years of human existence. I have THOROUGHLY studied the extant ancient writings and legends, etc. in my search of the "spiritual fossil record" of humankind. So we will simply have to agree to disagree.
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You are confusing denial for attempting to prove a negative, which in absolute terms, scientifically, is impossible. This is my biggest beef with Jesus myth believers - they demand that people prove a negative (ie Jesus never existed) which is impossible for a number of reasons.
But let's ignore that for a moment and move on to why I, personally, believe Jesus never existed:
Your arguments that Jesus existed a little more than 2000 years ago and that since any "myth" which perpetuates so long is proof of said existence is flimsy. Even though Jesus was supposedly born in a backwater of the Roman Empire the Romans still kept birth records and it is true that they kept death records of those who they executed too. To have a governor of said backwater to pardon a known felon and instead kill a person with flimsy evidence to any crimes would also attract attention, especially if he was the sort of general looking to advance himself. The lack of evidence that they executed a person under these strange circumstances is one way of saying he never existed. Further, the lack of documentation of unbiased reports (a person performing miracles in the middle of the desert and feeding thousands would definitely attract attention, if not the Roman Empire consuls) that anyone named Jesus was doing amazing things is another point of evidence to me that he never existed (and since you have exhaustively researched the history of Christianity, you must agree with me here, otherwise you are buying in to disproven and/or compromised sources besides the Bible).
"So what?" one may argue, "There have been 2000 years since his existence, and the existence of our great-great-great-great grandfathers are likely lost too. Not to mention the dark ages destroyed much of ancient knowledge, and after them, the Muslims ruled the holy land and actively quelched or subjugated any non-Muslim believers." This is a valid point, and one which I cannot refute. However, of the documentation surrounding his birth, life, and "life after death", as well as the circumstances of his family, I can show parallels between Jesus and many many other ancient deities. This shows that indeed ancient documentation may have been destroyed, but what survives looks awfully like other more ancient religions (and since you've exhaustively researched these beforehand, you must agree with me):
- born to a virgin and worshipped after birth by three kings who were guided to his birthplace by a star
- called the "lamb of god" "savior of mankind" "son of god" and many others
- performed miracles like healing the sick, turning water into wine, feeding many from little, and so on
- was a prophet and religious prodigy
- was prosecuted, died, and on the third day rose from the dead
Sound familiar? If you asked believers in Osiris, Buddha, Mithra, and many many other deities, they would answer "yes" too, because all these ancient belief systems which revolved around one god (even if it was polytheistic) had the same myth stories. And we all know ancient Egyptian sun worship, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. are older than Christianity, so it throws the birth of said mythical figure into question.
Thus, my conclusion is that Jesus worship is nothing more than a slightly different twist on ancient sun worship. Even the resurrection story is rooted in ancient mythology. Think of yourself as an ancient farmer. Life is very hard. Death surrounds you, work is hard, and not only that, you run the risk of raiders, ancient government soldiers taking you away on a ruler's whim, excruciating taxes, etc. Further, the world is a mystery to you since science has not explained the seasons, the weather, disease, etc. But you are observant, and can tell stories which are linked to the seasons. So, the stories are surrounded by observations, like the winter solstice. In the northern hemisphere the sun appears to drop to the horizon as the season changes to winter, and in the dead of winter, the highest point of the day appears to not dip any more, for three days. After the third day, the Earth rotates back slightly, thus the solstice, bringing the promise of new life and a new harvest next year. Sound familiar? The sun dies, and on the third day, rises again. Any stories to make me think forward to a new harvest would definitely make me happier.
This is not to say that religion is incapable of incredible good. Mother Theresa and other figures, large and small, some of whom I know, are testaments to that. However, I personally choose not to believe what I consider a lie and thus would rather do good and prevent harm based on my inherent belief that other humans are worthy of my efforts. And I personally believe that many religious people, deep down, also believe humans are worth their efforts too, otherwise, what are they doing what they do that for? Going to heaven? The Bible itself said that doing good just for the sake of going to heaven will not get a rotten heart up there as well. I think not. People deep down believe other people are worth it. Otherwise us as a species would not have gotten this far.
And THAT is the only thing to me which proves time makes a testament to - our own willingness to survive, and thrive.
Peace be unto you.
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