Jesus died for your sins! (against, reject, soul, hell)

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by pie in ear

I don't need to prove it...although it is well documented in secular jewish history of the day.

I'm fine with Him.

You would need to prove He didn't exist.

Good luck.

One cannot prove a negative, sorry. The burden of proof is square upon the shoulders of the Christers.

And if you people are going to constantly claim I'm going to hell for not worshipping your Christ, and/or especially the constant attempt to subvert our Secular Laws with your religion, you'd damn well better try and prove it.

If he is that well "documented in secular Jewish history", what "secular" documents then? Josephus? Proven fraud. Tacitus? A century or more after the alleged "fact".

So feel free to enumerate this long list of "secular jewish documents".

[pie in ear]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

One cannot prove a negative, sorry. The burden of proof is square upon the shoulders of the Christers.

And if you people are going to constantly claim I'm going to hell for not worshipping your Christ, and/or especially the constant attempt to subvert our Secular Laws with your religion, you'd damn well better try and prove it.

If he is that well "documented in secular Jewish history", what "secular" documents then? Josephus? Proven fraud. Tacitus? A century or more after the alleged "fact".

So feel free to enumerate this long list of "secular jewish documents".

No one's claiming you're going to Hell for not worshiping Christ...you've not to worry as you're already there.
That is not why people go to hell. Hell is a state of being, or should I say, not being. Anything cut off from the LIFE is dead.

Again, I've no need to prove anything. If you don't believe it's fine with me.
So you can't prove He didn't exist?

Your loss...and a mighty BIG one....... until the Light goes on.....

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by pie in ear

You've not to worry about going to hell as you're already there.

Again, I've no need to prove anything. If you don't believe it's fine with me.
So you can't prove He didn't exist?

Your loss...and a mighty BIG one....... until the Light goes on.....

Just as vague and misdirecting as I've come to expect from Christers.

And again, one cannot prove a negative.

[noland123]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

One cannot prove a negative, sorry. The burden of proof is square upon the shoulders of the Christers.

And if you people are going to constantly claim I'm going to hell for not worshipping your Christ, and/or especially the constant attempt to subvert our Secular Laws with your religion, you'd damn well better try and prove it.

If he is that well "documented in secular Jewish history", what "secular" documents then? Josephus? Proven fraud. Tacitus? A century or more after the alleged "fact".

So feel free to enumerate this long list of "secular jewish documents".

In your second sentence stated you will have to wait when you die to obtain your proof.

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by noland123

In your second sentence stated you will have to wait when you die to obtain your proof.

Is that the best you have?

An implied threat of hell?

Epic Fail.

[pie in ear]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

Is that the best you have?

An implied threat of hell?

Epic Fail.

Like I said, You can't see it because you're already there.
When we die the things that distract us from our real state of being are removed like our history our outer circumstances our bodies ...all gone and we're left with our puny miserable impotent selves.

By the time you get the proof YOU are requiring it will be too late, as Noland mentioned.

Those are the rules and materialistic people will be in for a surprise.

[Ajeck]

Originally Posted by pie in ear

Like I said, You can't see it because you're already there.
When we die the things that distract us from our real state of being are removed like our history our outer circumstances our bodies ...all gone and we're left with our puny miserable impotent selves.

By the time you get the proof YOU are requiring it will be too late, as Noland mentioned.

Those are the rules and materialistic people will be in for a surprise.

Why is it that when another doesn't believe EXACT SAME THING as someone else;they are considered blind/unsaveable? Forgive the bluntness, but this mindset is starting to truly sicken me. How can you in one hand say "come as your are" and then in other "The way you are makes you blind and because of it you will never see"? or the follow up "You ask too much of God... you will never receive the sign you are looking for"

For the most part today's Parents teach their children to make "educated decisions". This including asking questions and not taking things for granted. You hear "Don't talk to strangers" , "If everyone said you should jump off a bridge would you?" and so on. Would you then jump if someone said "Oh you won't die you just need to have faith"?

When the tables are turned and your "trust me because I can't prove anything technique" gets squashed you belittle someone by calling them blind? I'm sorry but in no way is this show love for that being for you and whatever God you believe in.

And for those who will read this post and say "You are angry at God"; this is your underlying issue. I am NOT angry at God. I am angry at the utter ignorance and hypocrisy of such statements; theist and atheist alike.

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by pie in ear

Like I said, You can't see it because you're already there.
When we die the things that distract us from our real state of being are removed like our history our outer circumstances our bodies ...all gone and we're left with our puny miserable impotent selves.

By the time you get the proof YOU are requiring it will be too late, as Noland mentioned.

Those are the rules and materialistic people will be in for a surprise.

You people just won't quit.

"You have to believe in order to believe, otherwise by the time you die it's too late and you will burn forever in a lake of fire"

And all based solely on an ancient manuscript proven to be merely a poorly written fantasy novel.

Circular argument fallacie coupled with implied threats and guilt simply don't work anymore in any educated country.

This is why we see Christianity failing in Western Nations while gaining ground in third world countries still highly supersticious and with low educational standards.

Much like the atmosphere of medeival Europe.

[pie in ear]

Originally Posted by Ajeck

Why is it that when another doesn't believe EXACT SAME THING as someone else;they are considered blind/unsaveable? Forgive the bluntness, but this mindset is starting to truly sicken me. How can you in one hand say "come as your are" and then in other "The way you are makes you blind and because of it you will never see"? or the follow up "You ask too much of God... you will never receive the sign you are looking for"

For the most part today's Parents teach their children to make "educated decisions". This including asking questions and not taking things for granted. You hear "Don't talk to strangers" , "If everyone said you should jump off a bridge would you?" and so on. Would you then jump if someone said "Oh you won't die you just need to have faith"?

When the tables are turned and your "trust me because I can't prove anything technique" gets squashed you belittle someone by calling them blind? I'm sorry but in no way is this show love for that being for you and whatever God you believe in.

And for those who will read this post and say "You are angry at God"; this is your underlying issue. I am NOT angry at God. I am angry at the utter ignorance and hypocrisy of such statements; theist and atheist alike.

Ajeck,

I can fully understand your point and you started off with a very good question.
First, honestly, are you going to even consider my answer?
That is the whole thing..just being open enough to even hear what I have to say...and then disagree with it is fine...BUT WILL YOU EVEN HEAR ME?..Mr.Alexi is obviously a bitter one and has not even remotely considered a thing i said.
I certainly know how it is to not listen and hear someone out, it's not a judgment...i'm that way...i'm just saying that the whole gist of your intelligent question and my attempt to answer it lie in this one simple thing:
openness. if only for a moment.
You, with little effort, can easily see how a lack of openness will make anything I say as good as if I never wrote it...where is the discussion in that?

The funniest thing is that that is how all of life is lived by people every day.
No one really listens to anyone else. No one will be open to even let another human being in for even a moment...

If you are going to at least hear me I will say that first of all you are not required or even asked to believe anything that you don't want to believe.
That would be silly. Anyone who thinks you'll believe something you don't want to believe is an idiot. I do understand you.
I'm certainly not asking anyone to believe i'm only refuting blatant shallow remarks by some obviously bitter folks that may hurt someone else's search.

I won't bore you with my trek through this very same unbelief and seeming obnoxious assault of Christians. It has NOTHING to do with other Christians essentially.

You ask "How can you say on one hand come as you are and then say you can't believe unless you believe...."
Excellent and pointed question. It IS the heart of the whole matter.
If you in fact choose to come as you are, then there is SOMETHING in you that does believe enough to water the Seed. It is the willingness to at least come as you are that is missing here. It is the very same openness I am talking about.

Can I ask you, again honestly, if you did in fact understand something that someone else did not understand and you can plainly see where they are misunderstanding it and all the while the one who does not understand is calling your position imaginery and wrong and on and on, and you simple tell them, NOT that they are bad or evil or no good , but that they don't see.
They don't see something you see. They are in the dark on this.
Of course they will be offended, unless they've been in a similar situation...then they may consider that perhaps something is missing..

On the one hand you are correct. There is NO point in making someone believe...CANT BE DONE....
But blatant hatred and lies to others who are sincerely searching is not correct either.

[Arjay51]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

You people just won't quit.

"You have to believe in order to believe, otherwise by the time you die it's too late and you will burn forever in a lake of fire"

And all based solely on an ancient manuscript proven to be merely a poorly written fantasy novel.

Circular argument fallacie coupled with implied threats and guilt simply don't work anymore in any educated country.

This is why we see Christianity failing in Western Nations while gaining ground in third world countries still highly supersticious and with low educational standards.

Much like the atmosphere of medeival Europe.

Or a more current example, some people here on these forums