Let's see proof of creation (philosophical, reject, interpretation, hell)

[justme58]

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the Earth is or isn't millions of years old. The Bible was written before the Roman calendar. A "day" in the Bible could have been years. Or thousands of years.

Aah the alll to convenient deflection of day=1000 years argument that y'all luv to twaddle with. BTW, the whole night/day is pretty consistent in the OT in Hebrew to refer to a literal day and of course the YEC campers have their proof via the begats all the way back to the mythical adam to derive the 6k time span, hell even your dispensationalists use this as a 6k+1k = 7k for teh ende ov teh wurlde scenario

And DNA actually proves God to me, because the sheer odds that DNA strands just formed in a way that led to what we are would be less than that of dropping a thousand bricks off of a building and having them land to form a house.

The lego argument - well we heathen have a cage somewhere waiting for your gawd to majikally create out of thin air any creature - it is still empty. While evolution marches on minuscule step by minuscule step. You are never going to find a crocoduck as that is not how evolution works.

You've proven nothing. You might make yourself feel better, but your definition of proof needs work.

You have brought absolutely no proof to the table yet but I am sure you will be able to fabricate something amusing

You lot can only try your case by vainly attempting to discredit the overwhelming volumes of evidence in favour of evolution. I am pretty certain if we take all these published peer reviewed works and stack them up, there will be a tower or towers alongside the minuscule lil' buybull as the alternative not to mention the warehouses full of fossil records, we have not even scratched the surface.

Our evidence is new and backed up by a system that self polices, yours is ancient and has no policing whatsoever hence the 37k+ denominations all claiming to be the one true church. At least science is consistent compared to your ilk.

Only in la la land does your version hold any credence.

[agnostic soldier]

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

And all I see from Darwinists is that they can't prove evolution, yet they won't admit it. They're too stubborn to think that there are some things in this world that they might not know.

You cannot tell me that you know without a doubt that God doesn't exist, because you can't know that. There's no way to prove where the universe came from.

If you know without a doubt that something didn't happen a certain way, by definition, you HAVE to know how it DID happen.

All I see is creationists to stubborn to accept reality. Whether or not you believe it was guided by a deity, evolution is a fact of life. There's no getting around it. Also, you can't prove a god does exist so there's no reason to believe the claim is true. Why don't you actually try and prove creationism instead of trying to 'discredit' something you know nothing about.

[agnostic soldier]

Kevcrawford, it's interesting how you deflect the thread away from proving creationism to making straw man arguments about evolution. Do you actually have any real proof that substantiates creationism? It appears you do not.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

It certainly does. At one point life had to "evolve" from no life, correct?

Not necessarily. WE do know that life must come from life. We do not know where the original life came from. Your "life from no life" argument is flawed because you are noting that life exists and then you are immediately jumping to the unfounded conclusion that there must have been a time when it DIDN'T exist.

And yes, the thread is talking about proof of creation. I stated that I had no proof, only faith.

The requirement of faith means that you have no proof for what you believe....contrary to your previous claims that you DO have proof.

You have faith in the process of evolution, but to believe that, you have to believe that life started at some point. I'm merely asking when that point was.

No I don't have faith at all. I believe in the overwhelming amount of evidence that is available to us.

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

Nope. I believe He's always been.

So why do you have such a problem believing that the Universe has always been there?

But you can't tell me where your Earth came from either, so you see, we both have FAITH.

Well actually I COULD tell you....it's just that you wouldn't believe it so it really isn't worth the time and effort of typing it all out.

There's a stubbornness in the scientific community that prevents you from looking at anything you can't see/touch/etc.

...and there is a delusion in the religious community that prevents you from looking at verifiable, objective evidence

Do you think that science has discovered everything there is to discover?

Nope.

Do you think that there may be something new discovered every day?

Yep.

There are things out there beyond our wildest dreams that will be discovered one day, and you probably have no problem with that, which is strange to me. But to believe there's a Creator...we're all of a sudden crazy.

So, do you think that there may be something new discovered every day? If so, do you accept that there may come a day when science proves conclusively where life came from, how it all began and in doing so, proves that your god is nothing more than myth?

Science is absolutely limitless, but we don't have the ability to discover certain things. Because we don't know about them, are they not there? If you practice science, you must believe there are infinite numbers of things out there to discover, correct?

Undoubtedly. So you would agree then that there is the possibility that there may come a day when science proves that supernatural entities do not exist...or perhaps proves that supernatural deities do exist and that the one true deity is Zeus. Yes?

Except God. That's the ONLY think you won't believe in.

Au contraire! All you have to do is -
1. Provide verifiable, objective evidence that gods exist.
2. Provide verifiable, objective evidence that the particular god that you believe in is the only true one.

Who's the one without an open mind?

Answer the questions put to you in this post and we'll see.

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

There are lots of scientific studies, but they're all full of holes.

I trust that you are qualified to make such a statement? Can you provide us with you CV please?

Take evolution all the way back to the beginning of time, and you had to have SOMETHING first live....but you cannot answer that, therefore you have just as much proof as I have that God exists....read: NONE.

Listen carefully dude. What you are looking for is evidence of abiogenesis. That has nothing to do with evolution. Abiogenesis deals with how life started, evolution deals with what happened to that life AFTER it started. Your constant referrals to the start of life on this planet as 'evolution' leaves us in no doubt that you don't even have the first idea of what you are trying to dismiss.

Originally Posted by sammyb

There is no proof of evoulution....I am attending college now, and just read a month ago about evolution in a new text...listed as THEORY.

What you need to do, and quickly, is to examine the difference between a theory and a scientific theory. If you don't want to do that then go to the top of the nearest high building and jump off the edge.....then come back and tell us that the Theory of Gravity is only a theory.

It taked faith just to rely on a friend paying you back money...faith exists in lots of different things and situations.

Whilst your looking up what a scientific theory is you might also look up the difference between faith and trust.

I as a teacher of the gospel, have to study other religions ........

So do tell us what manuscripts from other religions you have studied.

.....oh, and don't think you can just Google the names of books from other religions and claim to have studied them because I'll be asking questions on them. So off you go. Tell us what other religions you have studied, what texts you have studied from those other religions and why you have concluded that those texts are inaccurate and untrue. We can start with the Guru Granth Sahib if you like. Please tell us why, in your scholarly opinion, why Prahlad Singh, recorded the commandment "With the order of the Eternal Lord has been established Sikh Panth: all the Sikhs hereby are commanded to obey the Granth as their Guru".

Off ya go!

[LZKay1]

Originally Posted by agnostic soldier

evolution is a fact of life

Do you have any proof species came from pre-existing species?

[justme58]

Originally Posted by LZKay1

Do you have any proof species came from pre-existing species?

Yes, if you dare to look at this factual site

Indicator 2: Scientists have never observed the evolution of one species into another species. Every species on earth produces only copies of itself, never a new species.

Rebuttal: Several "speciation events" have been demonstrated from direct observation. The evolution of a new species of fruit flies has been observed in the laboratory 2 Evolution of a new species of fish from the Tilapia fish in East African lakes has been studied in the wild. 3,4

For the detail, you will need to look at the footnotes and links.


See you in a couple of days

[ak.nessa]

I think evolution likely happened, but I also believe in a high power (but I don't expect everyone else to do the same). I often refer to myself as a Christian, but not sure if that encompasses my beliefs accurately.

I don't disbelieve anything unless I can prove it DOES NOT exist. I cannot prove that God does not exist, so why bother trying to prove either way? It would be a useless investigation because there is no way I could possibly every prove or disprove something as abstract as GOD! I do know it's not just some guy with a beard sitting in the clouds...Good riddance!

I am not a bible thumping church fanatic, but I do believe that all humans should be grateful for what they have, loving toward their friends/family/neighbors, and forgiving. And I do believe there is something greater than all of us that is Good. And some passages from the bible are really incredible and I think should not be ignored because they can help us! They are very inspirational. And I think it helps cure loneliness in many people. If you feel "emptiness" it definitely helps to believe in a God or believe in SOMETHING other than this blatant reality.

One thing we all know (and the Bible does remind us of this), is that humans are NOT perfect and we are not expected to be perfect. We can only try our best and be good people. If we are not striving to be good, and if we let evil take over our lives, I really am concerned for those people because IF there is some sort of consequence for their actions, maybe they wouldn't have lived the way they did if they had known about the consequences? Makes more sense to play on the safe side and be GOOD Just in case!


You see, there is no way to prove creationism. There is also no way to disprove it.

And if you want to get very abstract, there is also no way to prove or disprove evolution - IF you are able to comprehend the idea that reality may not be exactly as it seems. Who are we to assume that this tangible realm is truly what is REAL? What if we are understanding things completely backwards and not noticing 99% of what is actually happening? It's all about peoples' perception of reality. I think everyone has a right to believe in a higher power and should not be judged for it.

[kevcrawford]

Originally Posted by justme58

Aah the alll to convenient deflection of day=1000 years argument that y'all luv to twaddle with. BTW, the whole night/day is pretty consistent in the OT in Hebrew to refer to a literal day and of course the YEC campers have their proof via the begats all the way back to the mythical adam to derive the 6k time span, hell even your dispensationalists use this as a 6k+1k = 7k for teh ende ov teh wurlde scenario

The lego argument - well we heathen have a cage somewhere waiting for your gawd to majikally create out of thin air any creature - it is still empty. While evolution marches on minuscule step by minuscule step. You are never going to find a crocoduck as that is not how evolution works.

You have brought absolutely no proof to the table yet but I am sure you will be able to fabricate something amusing

You lot can only try your case by vainly attempting to discredit the overwhelming volumes of evidence in favour of evolution. I am pretty certain if we take all these published peer reviewed works and stack them up, there will be a tower or towers alongside the minuscule lil' buybull as the alternative not to mention the warehouses full of fossil records, we have not even scratched the surface.

Our evidence is new and backed up by a system that self polices, yours is ancient and has no policing whatsoever hence the 37k+ denominations all claiming to be the one true church. At least science is consistent compared to your ilk.

Only in la la land does your version hold any credence.

You can all keep trying to rebut my argument, but can't. You have faith that some very loosely compiled studies are true. But there are enough holes in it that it doesn't prove anything. Species adapt, but they don't change.

You cannot prove to me that God doesn't exist. You'll never be able to. Most of you that post on here truly don't know the first thing about the evolutionary studies. All you do is take a minute to hit Google and copy/paste the first thing you see.

There are lots of folks saying "I believe the evidence" but don't provide the evidence, so you've got nothing.

Yes, I've been speaking of when life began, but that goes hand in hand with evolution. Life had to begin at some point to begin evolving.

You all claim to have an open mind, but they're as closed as a rusted steel trap. It's a stubborn refusal to see anything that you cannot physically prove, but again, things exist that haven't been proven yet.

You'll figure that out someday.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by ak.nessa

I don't disbelieve anything unless I can prove it DOES NOT exist.

So do you believe in Zeus, Mithra, Brahma, Dionysus, Ra, mermaids, leprechauns, Santa, pixies, unicorns, green elephants with 3 heads and 12 legs and a million other supernatural beings that you can't prove DON'T exist?

Makes more sense to play on the safe side and be GOOD Just in case!

But how do you know you ARE playing on the safe side? How do you know that you're not going to be met by the FSM when you die?

And if you want to get very abstract, there is also no way to prove or disprove evolution -

There is no need for us to do so. It has already been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Originally Posted by kevcrawford

You can all keep trying to rebut my argument, but can't. You have faith that some very loosely compiled studies are true. But there are enough holes in it that it doesn't prove anything.

I've asked you before but (predictably) you ignored it. What are your qualifications in the field that lead you to conclude that by far the majority of highly qualified scientists have all been duped.

You cannot prove to me that God doesn't exist. You'll never be able to.

That's because you don't want it to be proven to you.....that much is obvious from your posts. You could never prove to me that the Sun exists if I am prepared to keep telling myself that there is no evidence that the Sun exists and blatantly disregard the verifiable, objective evidence that it does exist.

Most of you that post on here truly don't know the first thing about the evolutionary studies.

Well you have certainly shown that you don't.

There are lots of folks saying "I believe the evidence" but don't provide the evidence, so you've got nothing.

The evidence has been provided...you just chose to ignore it. I gave you a link that put it in simple enough terms and your response to it was to shout "it just theory." That gives me pretty clear evidence that you didn't even read it because the article was giving facts that are verifiable and therefore, proven....or do you deny the fossil column?

Life had to begin at some point to begin evolving.

Explain why. Give us your scholarly, academic thoughts on why you think life MUST have started somewhere or why the Universe MUST have been created. You are quite happy to believe that your god had no begining and has always existed so why do you think that the Universe could not be the same?

You all claim to have an open mind, but they're as closed as a rusted steel trap.

Do you accept that that the gods of other religions could exist?

It's a stubborn refusal to see anything that you cannot physically prove, .....

So you DO believe in mermaids then?

but again, things exist that haven't been proven yet.

Examples please.

BTW kev. I don't think I've yet seen you address a direct question that has been put to you. All you seem to do is come back with "you can't prove me wrong nah nah nah, so there."

Try going through this post and every time you see one of these '?', please provide an answer.

[kevcrawford]

Originally Posted by Rafius

So do you believe in Zeus, Mithra, Brahma, Dionysus, Ra, mermaids, leprechauns, Santa, pixies, unicorns, green elephants with 3 heads and 12 legs and a million other supernatural beings that you can't prove DON'T exist?

But how do you know you ARE playing on the safe side? How do you know that you're not going to be met by the FSM when you die?

There is no need for us to do so. It has already been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

I've asked you before but (predictably) you ignored it. What are your qualifications in the field that lead you to conclude that by far the majority of highly qualified scientists have all been duped.

That's because you don't want it to be proven to you.....that much is obvious from your posts. You could never prove to me that the Sun exists if I am prepared to keep telling myself that there is no evidence that the Sun exists and blatantly disregard the verifiable, objective evidence that it does exist.

Well you have certainly shown that you don't.

The evidence has been provided...you just chose to ignore it. I gave you a link that put it in simple enough terms and your response to it was to shout "it just theory." That gives me pretty clear evidence that you didn't even read it because the article was giving facts that are verifiable and therefore, proven....or do you deny the fossil column?

Explain why. Give us your scholarly, academic thoughts on why you think life MUST have started somewhere or why the Universe MUST have been created. You are quite happy to believe that your god had no begining and has always existed so why do you think that the Universe could not be the same?

Do you accept that that the gods of other religions could exist?

So you DO believe in mermaids then?

Examples please.

BTW kev. I don't think I've yet seen you address a direct question that has been put to you. All you seem to do is come back with "you can't prove me wrong nah nah nah, so there."

Try going through this post and every time you see one of these '?', please provide an answer.

You're spending an awful lot of time and effort getting worked up over something that doesn't exist to you.

You've provided just as much proof as I have....none. I'm just stating that you have faith in evolution, but cannot prove it.

You're fighting that for some reason, but at the same time, you're not fighting it with proof.

The whole point of this is that you are SO sure that God doesn't exist and that evolution is responsible for us being where we're at, but you have nothing more than a "religion" based on one man's studies, which are full of holes.

I'm not going to go through the trouble of citing specific studies because you won't listen to anything. It's not worth my time. I believe that there is a God. You BELIEVE that there isn't. You don't know it though. You can't.

Whether you admit it or not, you know in your heart that you have FAITH that the evolutionary process occurred, but you can't prove it. Until you can prove all the links in the evolutionary process, and can tell me when the first life form started and how, you have nothing.

Except faith.

Admit it or not, you have faith in something. But no proof.