Is this forum about religion or about bashing religion? (Jehovah's Witness, euthanasia, Islam)

[BergenCountyJohnny]

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Like you said, I AM painting it with a broad brush. Don't assume that just because I use blanket assertions for the general populace mean I don't think there are exceptions. Did I say you specifically? No, I did not. Leave your assumptions and insults at the doorstep. And conversion and harassment goes hand-in-hand.

Right, as I said you ARE "painting it with a broad brush". That's bigotry. I don't "assume that just because [you] use blanket assertions for the general populace mean[sic] [you] don't think there are exceptions". I'm well aware that bigots typically think there are exceptions to their bigoted stereotyping. It's a cliche to hear the bigot who says "well I don't think ALL black/jewish/etc. people are ________, it's just MOST of them; there are a few exceptions that are the GOOD ones."

So, I assumed nothing. I guess you think your bigotry and stereotyping is "OK" because you "think there are exceptions," but that's just standard, run-of-the-mill bigotry and closed-mindedness.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Are you smart enough to understand what I'm stating?

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Because what you are saying is that you think it's okay for Christians to do whatever it is they are doing while it's not okay for me to do the same.

Where did I say that?

Originally Posted by Le Lune

You are implying that I should sit back quietly and accept that Christians are allowed to say what they want to me while I cannot.

I never said you "cannot". I was saying that too often there are many atheists who stereotype Christians and any genuine attempt by a Christian to proselytize is met with a knee-jerk, bigoted, hateful reaction. I'm not saying you "cannot" do that; you can do it all you want, but it's irrational. And I made clear I was not talking about being harrassed; harrassment is harrassment, whether it's about religion or something else. But I've made that very clear.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Irony? Please, check your own posts before you start with mine. You justify your own ignorance by stating that I should not call someone out when they are telling me that my own lifestyle is wrong in their eyes. Passive aggressive indeed.

If you truly believe that they are spiritually wrong it wouldn't bother you. It doesn't bother me when a muslim tells me I shouldn't eat pork or drink alcohol, or if a muslim tells me that I'm wrong about Jesus and that I should obey the Koran or else I won't be in paradise when I die. It might bother me if those things were a threat to my beliefs, but they're not.

Likewise, it shouldn't bother you that someone cares so much about you spiritually that the person chooses to share with you what they believe is spiritually a matter of life or death.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Don't get defensive there, bud. I not talking about your mom. I'm talking about "your" mom. Struck a nerve? If it doesn't apply to you, then there is no reason for you to bite back. Also, when I'm talking to a person who acts like a child..well, what do you expect?

I wasn't defensive. I was pointing out that talking about someone's "momma" is very juvenile and it would be nice to have a "grown-up" conversation with you instead of dealing with juvenile jabs like "your momma should have taught you..." or whatever.

As for your accusing me of acting like a child, well, there's the invective that's par for the course from you. I suppose you are saying you don't want to converse like a grown-up... oh well.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

My view is myopic? Understand that when I use the term "Christian", it's on a very broad scale. I'm not referring to all Christians. I'm referring to the specific ones I've met and the ones that give it a bad name, thank you very much.

Wow. Yes, your view is myopic, because you stereotype Christians in a bigoted manner. Did you read what you wrote here? It's beyond irony, it's self-contradiction...

First you say "when I use the term "Christian", it's on a very broad scale."

Then you say that you're "not referring to all Christians," but instead only "to the specific ones I've met and the ones that give it a bad name, thank you very much."

So which is it? Aa "broad" scale which would be most or all Christians? Or a "specific" select group of Christians who are not representative of Christians as a whole?

Again, you're being extremely bigoted and myopic. So myopic, apparently, that you don't even see your own myopia.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

And "my" ilk? What the hell is that?

Other myopic and bigoted people. For example, I have known people who were bigots, and they say similar things; one guy I worked with years ago referred to back people with a slur every time, but one day when someone said that he hates black people, he explained, "No, I just call them [by that word] because a lot of them are, but I know there are SOME good ones, I don't hate them ALL - just a lot of them!"

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Looks whose view is myopic now Why do you assume that I cannot differentiate or understand that there are those who are respectful and those who are not?

Because you bigotedly use stereotypes and by your own admission paint Christians with one broad brushstroke.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Look, stop being so defensive. If you are a good Christian, then this doesn't concern you. What other posters and I are really irritated about are those who are fanatical converters. When we say "you". We don't mean you yourself or the good ones. Why do you assume that we are hating all Christians?

Wow. So when you say "you" you don't mean "you"... unbelievable. When you say "Christians" and I assume you mean you are hating all Christians I'm being irrational?

Keep digging that hole...

Originally Posted by Le Lune

As for the double standards, Christians on this board play that game too. So the double standard scales are balanced

I'm sure there are. Are you saying that because some Christians do what's wrong it's OK for you and others to do what's wrong, too??? Is that your morality - 2 wrongs make a right? Vengeance?

Originally Posted by Le Lune

My religion benefits more on an individual person's well-being than the bigger picture. As for eternal life, my religion does not focus on that topic, thanks for asking. And my beliefs don't condemn you for not believing it because my beliefs are accepting of other people's religion whereas yours are not.

So your religious beliefs are inconsequential in terms of life or death, spiritually. So of course there's no urgency for you to want to share your religion.

And if your religion is accepting of other people's religions, doesn't that mean that your religion is accepting of Christianity, including the tenet of Christianity called "The Great Commission" which is every Christians imperative to spread the Gospel by witnessing to others?

And if your religion is accepting of other religions, including Christianity and Christians' act of proselytizing, then aren't you vioating your own religion by not accepting Christianity and Christians' desire to practice their religion by proselytizing you and others???

What is this mysterious religion of yours that claims "acceptance" but allows you to be bigoted against other religious adherents, claiming that it's some kind of retaliatory bigotry in return for the bigotry you feel coming from some of them??? Or are you just not abiding by your mystery religion? Or is your mystery religion one of those do-it-yourself, "best-of/greatest hits" compilation-style religions, kind of a "mix tape/CD" of religion you have made for yourself, which you can change at every whim and fancy?

Originally Posted by Le Lune

That is the difference between my beliefs and yours. Yours can easily condemn me whereas mine doesn't really care if you believe or not. It focuses more on self-reflection and improving oneself. It doesn't focus on hating people just because they are different with different beliefs.

So "hating people just because they are different with different beliefs" is not one of the main beliefs of your religion, but a lesser belief?

Originally Posted by Le Lune

It doesn't focus on "spreading the love".

Yes, this is very clear. You have represented your mystery religion well on that point.

Originally Posted by Le Lune

If you don't accept my religion, that's fine with me. I might not accept your beliefs, but I respect you enough to accept that you have your own faith and that it'll make you a better person. But to go so far as to push your own beliefs onto me when I did not do the same to you is disrespectful. It's not even about religion. It's about ethics.

Well, again you conflate proselytizing with harrassment. At what point does it become "pushing" one's beliefs? Weren't you just "pushing" your beliefs onto me by telling me what's OK and what's not OK??? Or is that not "pushing" yet? Does your mystery religion decide what "pushing" is? Or are you the sole arbiter of what "pushing" is (i.e., it's only "pushing" when a Christian proselytizes)???

and lol@"It's about ethics."

Originally Posted by Le Lune

Finally, in my beliefs, I can choose to question and accept it however I want. It is my own decision. There is no spiritual consequence, only a cultural one.

Well of course it's easy to follow a religion which is do-it-yourself.

Anyway, here is one well-known generally anti-Christian atheist's take on believers who try to spread the Gospel:
YouTube - Penn Gillette gets a gift of a Bible

[rifleman]

Actually, these posts and threads are functionally about showing us all how each other thinks and resolves the conflicts in our personal belief systems. These fora have been categorized and pre-sorted so you can, in principle, find the one you're most interested in.

I'll listen, and I'll consider exactly what the other guy wants me to consider, but I've learned, over the past year, that Christians are not so generous nor benevolent as the atheists. This is apparently not a two-way street. Their intransigence is quite demonstrative and instructive.

They simply will not, can not and never intend to listen to anything that degrades their beliefs. Even the arrival of an alien God who could prove to us, with his onboard video system and extensive historical video log from the days of the mythical Jesus icon, that He was/is the God of Scripture, would not be believed by the frantic and intransigent Christians who regularly post here. They wouldn't even attend the screening!

That indeed causes some consternation and combative posts, you bet. Why debate with the intransigent, BCJ?

[Le Lune]

Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny

Right, as I said you ARE "painting it with a broad brush". That's bigotry. I don't "assume that just because [you] use blanket assertions for the general populace mean[sic] [you] don't think there are exceptions". I'm well aware that bigots typically think there are exceptions to their bigoted stereotyping. It's a cliche to hear the bigot who says "well I don't think ALL black/jewish/etc. people are ________, it's just MOST of them; there are a few exceptions that are the GOOD ones."

Right, you are a bigot for assuming that I'm a bigot. Here's the definition of the word bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

We are all bigots. You are so wrapped in your opinion that you disregarded my statement that I can separate between right and wrong and that are many exceptions to all sides. You want so much to draw me as a bigoted person with an extreme side that hates any and all living Christians and that they should be slaughtered and fed to the dogs. Thanks, but no thanks. Keep your sick fantasies and attempts to label me as such to yourself. Take each statement with a grain of salt rather pinpoint on and on how you think when I'm stating this when I'm clearly stating something totally opposite. Also, cut out the ad hominems, please

So, I assumed nothing. I guess you think your bigotry and stereotyping is "OK" because you "think there are exceptions," but that's just standard, run-of-the-mill bigotry and closed-mindedness.

Again, ad hominems. You're a bigot too. Just because you don't assume anything doesn't mean you are not bigoted. Does it mean I don't read your opinions and see where you are coming from? No. Stop being a bigot and such a big baby.

Where did I say that?

You say in one breath that you don't tell others how to live their lives, and in the next breath you give me a command on how to live mine by telling me what not to do. I guess what you MEANT was you don't tell someone how to live their life EXCEPT to give them YOUR rules of what you think they should and shouldn't talk about.

I thank you kindly if you actually paid attention to what I wrote instead of what you THINK I wrote. I don't tell others how to live their lives. I never told you how to live your life. I simply stated that if you are so impolite as to try and convert me, my politeness wears thin and it frees me from any inhibition of being polite to you any longer. I'll tell you how to live, based on my standards, your life when you break the ice and tell me that my beliefs are wrong and that I should convert to yours first. You push first, I'll beat you down on the floor second. Simple as that.

I never said you "cannot". I was saying that too often there are many atheists who stereotype Christians and any genuine attempt by a Christian to proselytize is met with a knee-jerk, bigoted, hateful reaction. I'm not saying you "cannot" do that; you can do it all you want, but it's irrational.

Yes, you are. Or else we wouldn't be having 10+ paragraphs debating on why I shouldn't hate fanatical Christians when they try to convert me and that I should accept their "generosity". Answer me this: Would you not have a hateful reaction if said converters repeated this incidence more than once in your life? You cannot understand our position because you are so filled with the idea that all Christians are the nice and kind ones in your church. There are bigots on both sides. Learn to accept that.

I'll respond to the rest of your statements in 6 hours. I have class now

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Le Lune

.......I....um.......your grammar.....and sentence structure.......errr.....is.....like......how should I say this....argh.....so hard....look.....next time.....please.....I'm urging you this.....don't type....and I'm being polite.....about this....please....don't type....like you've....oh dear goodness....like you....are having..........sorry about this....having....a heart attack....when typing....your response....thanks...and...May....the Buddha....be....with...you.......

Yeah, And Since When Is Every Word In A Sentence Supposed To Be Capitalized? That Doesn't Exactly Make For Easy Reading Either!

[TXknitter]

I've noticed the same thing. Christians don't waste their time going to pagan sites and bashing their religion. If you hate Christians and want to rant about hypocrisy (of which there is plenty to discuss about the secular world as well) then I'm sure you can find a HATER OF RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS FORUM. You would be more at home there. Why do haters feel the need to go on religion sites just to be nasty? What a shame !

[Mercury Cougar]

Originally Posted by TXknitter

Why do haters feel the need to go on religion sites just to be nasty? What a shame !

I suppose for the same reasons that believers feel they must intrude on the personal space of people they don't know, by knocking on their door and attempting to convert them to their way of thinking.

Or probably for the same reasons they walk through parking lots littering their inane religious tracts on all the windshields there, or shoving them into hapless shopper's hands when they try to pass through the doorways.

Or for the same reasons that believers will block clinics and assault the women trying to use the services there.

Or for the same reasons that gay funerals or soldiers funerals are picketed by disgusting religious bigots.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Religious beliefs . . . like anything else . . . tend to be judged by their most vocal, public and aggressive proponents. Thus Islam is judged by the fanatic terrorists who use it for political ends. Christianity is judged by the pushy evangelicals and fundamentalist literalists who openly reject modern scientific knowledge in favor of superstition. The attacks are abreactions to the frustration caused by these extremes. The fact that the vast majority in the middle are not represented by these extremes is lost, especially on the unbelievers who are probably not all that familiar with religious beliefs in general.

Yes, Mystic, but can you imagine how utterly BORING these threads and posts would be if it was all presided over by the moderates? As you say, each group's buttons get regularly pushed here, and we/they then over-react accordingly.

It's fun to watch, to participate in, and to vent under the cloak of anonymity.

In real life I and most others here don't even take a moment to spout our fiery opinions to others in our daily lives. They'd kick us all out of town!

"..that's Entertainment..."

[Jazzymom]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

There are some beliefs that deserve to be criticized, and I see nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't get personal....


YouTube - The Chaser's War on Everything: Do you Believe the Bible is True?

lololololololol omg that was so funny

[texdav]

Some just can't stnd that other believe and think some how they will convert people to non-belief.This is the proper form for those types really.who like to agrue that the ohter is stupid as they beleive.It keeps the opthers forum more for those that don't belivee and those that do.

[Thomas R.]

Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar

I suppose for the same reasons that believers feel they must intrude on the personal space of people they don't know, by knocking on their door and attempting to convert them to their way of thinking.

Or probably for the same reasons they walk through parking lots littering their inane religious tracts on all the windshields there, or shoving them into hapless shopper's hands when they try to pass through the doorways.

Most denominations don't do this. Mainline Protestants, and to an extent Catholics, rarely evangelize at all. We all have to pay because of the Jehovah's Witnesses? Or the more annoying parts of the Bible Belt?

Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar

Or for the same reasons that believers will block clinics and assault the women trying to use the services there.

Most don't do this either. Although those "services" involve killing what we believe is human life. Maybe some go too far, but some animal rights people go too far as well. Should all vegetarians have to pay for that?

Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar

Or for the same reasons that gay funerals or soldiers funerals are picketed by disgusting religious bigots.

This is a minor Baptist denomination that is mostly rejected even by other Baptists. As I recall Phelps church has less than a hundred people and most of them are his relatives.