Did Jesus Leave Any Writings That He Wrote Himself? (Mary, Christians, believe)
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But if I can impose upon you to give me your opinion again... to read this one paragraph from Jesus that's in the message linked to the website, I'd appreciate it. Thanks much.
"Again, when it said, that from the beginning the Father had foreordained my death on the cross, that man might be redeemed from the penalties of sin in all men who lived thereafter, are all wrong and have no foundation as facts in the plan of God for the salvation of man and the restoring of the harmony of His universe, and the eradication of all sin and error from the world."
The Importance for Mankind Seeking the Divine Love (http://tinyurl.com/yhkg8g4 - broken link)
I note: "As I said when on earth, "Narrow is the way and strait is the gate which leads to life everlasting and few there be that enter therein," (1)
I do not believe now that any statement in the gospels purporting to come from the mouth of Jesus can be given credence. There are too many singularities and discrepancies. These messages could easily reflect the religious/theological views of the person getting them. They may even coincide with my own. But I come to my conclusions by analysing the gospel text, not by letting whatever will drift into my head.
Now, there's a matter of respect for belief here and both Rev and SoCal (low sugar) are very nice persons and are entitled to believe what they want, though I think the truth is important. The only reason I am attacking these messages is that they have several times been presented as supposedly prsuasive evidence. They are therefore fair game as indeed are my own views if I present them.
(1) Matthw 7. 14 from the sermon on the mount. I don't find it anywhere else. Since the synoptics used the same basic text it ought to be in Mark and Luke too, and John has no such sermon. I think it has to be seriously considered that Matthew wrote it himself.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-15-2010 at 01:40 PM..
I think coming back from the dead is impressive enough...
I suspect that the bible itself is entirely unbelievable, some scholars suggest that jesus was a composite critter, some say metaphor, quite a few say a work of fiction. The Jesuits never suggested to me or the rest of the class, that the bible should be taken as seriously as the fundamentalist insist. It is not truth, it points the way to what the church wants you to think is truth. Churches have a financial interest in what people believe, it is in their best interest to sell religion.
In addition to being a carpenter (thereby, would've been able to read construction plans, including measurements), Jesus of Nazareth was an observant Jew and a rabbi (thus, making him a Pharisee, as well) who would've been able to read and write both Hebrew and Aramaic (using the Hebrew alphabet) in order to participate in the three daily (evening, morning and afternoon) worship services, let alone the weekly Shabbat (Sabbath) service.
Jesus wasn't a Carpenter however he was a builder...what of we are not sure....whether that means day laborer or he helped build houses we are not sure. How Jesus would have known to read and write....even one let alone 2 languages is beyond me. 2% total literacy rate....would mean that only the top of the top could do this. Jesus was a Jewish Peasant with no access to this sort of learning. And how do you know what Jewish worship life was like in the 1st century ce might i add. It is not the same as modern Judaism i might add. Simply put it you are trying to use the bible as proof when historical data does not support the conclusion. I mean according to you Jesus was a master architect who spoke and read 2 very difficult languages fluently...a rabbi and he someone made it into the political religious party of the pharisees along with the priesthood.
I think you are now way off - topic, lady which topic is about whether Jesus left any writings.
No. He didn't. At best his sayings were written down but even that is demonstrably questionable. The most memorable parables are recorded only by one writer. Evidence is that it is his own work. John's long sermons are not even hinted at by any other gospel - writer. Who but someone deluded and blinded by faith could possibly see those as anything but the personal views of the gospel - writer?
Even the sermons on the mount/level place appear only in Matthew and Luke. There is no valid reason to believe any of those sayings as the authentic pronouncements of Jesus.
No. There is nothing that we can take as being words left by Jesus. What we can take is that Jesus and his lads came to join John the baptist as did all the others that John was baptizing and, after John was killed by Antipas, Jesus took over. That is a pretty clear suposition once one shelves all that transfiguration - type nonsense and poppycock - thanks for the term - about John grovelling at Jesus' feet.
Isn't it clear that this is just the principle of embarrassment at work? The Christian writers of the gospels could not deny that John baptized Jesus but they could gloss over this unwelcome fact by making him loudly proclaim that Jesus was 'The one to come' - and then contradict themselves by having the jailed John send messengers to ask that very same question.
The gospels are Christian propaganda and don't, dear lady, believe for a moment that they are anything else.
I note: "As I said when on earth, "Narrow is the way and strait is the gate which leads to life everlasting and few there be that enter therein," (1)
I do not believe now that any statement in the gospels purporting to come from the mouth of Jesus can be given credence. There are too many singularities and discrepancies. These messages could easily reflect the religious/theological views of the person getting them. They may even coincide with my own. But I come to my conclusions by analysing the gospel text, not by letting whatever will drift into my head.
Now, there's a matter of respect for belief here and both Rev and SoCal (low sugar) are very nice persons and are entitled to believe what they want, though I think the truth is important. The only reason I am attacking these messages is that they have several times been presented as supposedly prsuasive evidence. They are therefore fair game as indeed are my own views if I present them.
(1) Matthw 7. 14 from the sermon on the mount. I don't find it anywhere else. Since the synoptics used the same basic text it ought to be in Mark and Luke too, and John has no such sermon. I think it has to be seriously considered that Matthew wrote it himself.
Once again, thank you for your review and your nice comment. What I think we have here is a failure to communicate and that's probably my fault for which I deeply apologize.
I realize you're a very learned person of the Bible and you have said here "there are many singularities and discrepancies." And I want you to know one of the other reasons why Jesus wrote these messages was to debunk the Bible, because what you suspected all along is correct. In his words:
"I know that the Bible contains many sayings attributed to me in reference to this Plan, and many of my alleged sayings are believed in, by those who claim to be Christians, which are not true. I never said them, and they are contrary to what I received from the Father as to the true Plan of men's redemption from sin, and as to the only Way by which they can obtain true atonement with the Father and a knowledge of their own Immortality."
The Importance of Knowing the Way to the Celestial Kingdom. Many Statements in the Bible are Untrue. (http://tinyurl.com/27fyww5 - broken link)
So like I said, maybe I haven't made myself clear, that I don't follow the Bible. These messages are beyond the Bible and in Jesus' own words, it is not to be relied on when searching for the real truth.
In addition to being a carpenter (thereby, would've been able to read construction plans, including measurements), Jesus of Nazareth was an observant Jew and a rabbi (thus, making him a Pharisee, as well) who would've been able to read and write both Hebrew and Aramaic (using the Hebrew alphabet) in order to participate in the three daily (evening, morning and afternoon) worship services, let alone the weekly Shabbat (Sabbath) service.
So what did Jesus write automatically through James Padgett?
'When I became of proper age, I attended the common school provided for small children, and was taught those things that had to do with the religion of the Jews, and some things that were not religious in their nature.... my development in the knowledge of the truths which I taught during my public ministry, was caused by my inner spiritual faculties, and my teacher was God, who, through His angels and through my soul perceptions, caused to come to me those truths or rather the knowledge of them, and in no other way did I obtain it... between the time that I was twelve years of age and my public ministry, I lived at home with my parents, and assisted my father in his business of carpentry..."
Description of Birth and Life of Jesus Up to the Time of His Public Ministry (http://tinyurl.com/yahyfgx - broken link)
Once again, thank you for your review and your nice comment. What I think we have here is a failure to communicate and that's probably my fault for which I deeply apologize.
I realize you're a very learned person of the Bible and you have said here "there are many singularities and discrepancies." And I want you to know one of the other reasons why Jesus wrote these messages was to debunk the Bible, because what you suspected all along is correct. In his words:
"I know that the Bible contains many sayings attributed to me in reference to this Plan, and many of my alleged sayings are believed in, by those who claim to be Christians, which are not true. I never said them, and they are contrary to what I received from the Father as to the true Plan of men's redemption from sin, and as to the only Way by which they can obtain true atonement with the Father and a knowledge of their own Immortality."
The Importance of Knowing the Way to the Celestial Kingdom. Many Statements in the Bible are Untrue. (http://tinyurl.com/27fyww5 - broken link)
So like I said, maybe I haven't made myself clear, that I don't follow the Bible. These messages are beyond the Bible and in Jesus' own words, it is not to be relied on when searching for the real truth.
I think we are communicating pretty well. I know that the messages make it clear that the Bible is considered incorrect and the true facts are to be found in the messages recieved.
However, I am looking at those parts of the messages which say that certain facts or saying in the Gospels are corrects or subtantially so and I show why I think they cannot be. Which means that messages cannot be what they purport to be - messages from Jesus and the evangelists.
Thus claims in those messages about what Jesus wants cannot be given credence.
I think we are communicating pretty well. I know that the messages make it clear that the Bible is considered incorrect and the true facts are to be found in the messages recieved. However, I am looking at those parts of the messages which say that certain facts or saying in the Gospels are corrects or subtantially so and I show why I think they cannot be. Which means that messages cannot be what they purport to be - messages from Jesus and the evangelists. Thus claims in those messages about what Jesus wants cannot be given credence.
Okay, so then you have another source for your conclusions and I thank you for your patience and your response.
Btw, would this be one of your sources? Just curious,.
Nope. My source of reference is the Bible. Compared with itself, accepted history (including Josephus) culural mores of the time, Paul, geology palaeontology and evolution (and here talk origins IS a regular reference) and the Bible claims do not match up.
It does not require reference to a skeptical website to compare Matthew 17, Mark 9 and Luke 9.28 (the transfiguration) on with John 6. 10 -22 and see that they are totally contradictory, though it does require comparison of all the gospels to see that they ought to be describing the same event.
Except that few people seem to have realised that John 6. 10 -22, Matthew 17, Mark 9 and Luke 9.28 onwards are chronologically coincident and have a hard time taking it on board even when it is pointed out. One bod suggested that John covered up the event because of Matthew 17-9 about 'tell no -one' which a moment's thought will be seen to be flawed and, worse, quotemined because the injunction only applied up until the resurrection.
This is the sort of problem I find all the time. People will fiddle and quotemine rather than open their minds. I know why. Because religious faith is important to people and anything that might cause even the slightest doubt is to be pushed away, with poor logic, evasion, quotemining and actual dishonesty. It leaves be wondering why Faith is so fragile it can't take even the slightest knocks.
Thus anyone who claimed to be getting messages from Jesus and claimed that Matthew 17 was 'substantially correct' would not be believable (though I don't say that this particular event is mentioned).
I may say that your posting is refreshingly polite and apparently willing to listen.
Of course I have to be willing to listen to any points you may wish to make, but I have to say, for myself, at least, that website of messages seems to have already crashed and burned and polishing bits of wreckage will never get it in the air again.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-17-2010 at 05:55 AM..
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about John grovelling at Jesus' feet. 
